What is interesting to me is that the Chinese officials were there at all. Sleep deprivation and the like are practiced by US interrogators, so it would seem that having a Chinese interrogator would be fairly impractical. My guess is that it is a way to intimidate the Uighur captives, who are probably more likely to be scared of PLA officials than US ones.

Luckily, we only have a few more months of Gitmo being used as a detention camp. Naturally, all the services will be outsourced to black sites no matter who the next president is, but it's a start.

But on the plus side, at least these are some signs of international cooperation. Can you imagine Soviet officials in a US detention camp? Maybe the quasi-alliance will actually amount to something.

There are no permenant friends but permenant interest. I will vote for McCain to perpetuate war against Muslim Terrorist. Well, to perpetuate the interest for both Jews and Chinese.

Senator Liberman broke away from Democrat for the Jewish interest.

@ Tiako: Not sure if you remember but in Jan. 2002 China released their first systematic report of terrorist activities in Xinjiang. Despite its numerical inaccuracies it did list Uighurs (ETIM) has having links to AQ. Then in August of that same year the U.S Embassy in Beijing came out and declared ETIM to be a terrorist org. and, stupidly, attributed ALL the terrorist deaths and injuries alleged in the PRC report to ETIM (in the report ETIM is not attributed to ANY of the deaths or injuries).

So, January we have the PRC report, April we have Chinese and U.S. forces interrogating suspected Uighur terrorists and then in August the U.S. Beijing declares ETIM a terrorist group. Interesting. And another shining example of how inaccurate and incompetent our faithful hunters and gatherers of intelligence are.

Despite the fan fair the Chinese govt. made of the 22 Uighurs who were captured during America’s initial battles against the Taliban (late 2001), these interrogations and subsequent trails has not, in the majority of cases, revealed any evidence that corroborates China’s allegations.

Of the 22 detainees five of them were subsequently released (found to be wrong place, wrong time) and on fear that China would happily execute them they were sent to Albania; In Sept. 2006 a further ten more were released, their fate again spared by being placed anywhere but China. Thus, it appears that of the original 22 detainees’, only seven are of any interest to the U.S government and more than likely the watershed remnants of the Afghani-Soviet war: the die-hards so to speak.

Even then, their numbers are insignificant. Australia has had a similar number of detainees, should the Rudd government declare Marshall Law in Liverpool, Sydney (a concentrated Muslim suburb)?

@ Jimba

thanks for that timeline. That is interesting. Pakistan's NWFP was a very dangerous place for any Weeg to be after those declarations. As far as your spec:

"only seven are of any interest to the U.S government and more than likely the watershed remnants of the Afghani-Soviet war: the die-hards so to speak."

I wonder if these guys are in fact remnants of that former conflict? It is possible but unlikely- it was a longtime before 2002?

Possible because During the anti-Soviet war they could have easily fitted in with a northern Uzbek or Turknmen Mujaheed group and there were plenty of those in Pakistan as refugees during the war. Id be interested to know if any one has any evidence of Weegs fighting with the mujahideen against the Soviets. Possible also because Pakistan was full of young Weegs in the last years of the war; madrassahs were full of Kashgarliks etc. Indeed a young Mahsum went to Pakistan at this time (87-88 approx). Did he fight with a mujaheed group then against the Soviets?

Hajis could be found all over Rawalpindi at this time throughout teh year, straggling back from the holy sites or ontheir way; and the old haji hostels for the Hotanliks and Yarkanliks which dated from before the Communist take-over of Xinjiang were particularly full and operating as in the past. It is possible some weegs were siphoned off at this time into the Holy war.

Unlikely I would say mainly because of the more than a decade since the end of the war and the 2002 capture. They would be getting on if your guess is right and most of the GTMO releasees have been quite young it seems. How are old are the seven? Who are the seven perhaps would be a better question. hmmm....

@ ABC

what the **** (hell)
is this nonsense ?????????:

"I will vote for McCain to perpetuate war against Muslim Terrorist. Well, to perpetuate the interest for both Jews and Chinese.

Senator Liberman broke away from Democrat for the Jewish interest."

I will vote for the thunder gods to ...???

kick all asses

"The scariest thing is that the footnote makes it clear that it was likely Chinese interrogators carrying out the sleep deprivation and sensory abuse of Uyghur detainees, under U.S. custody."

I can imagine Chinese government was saying "We can make an offer that US can not refuse!"

I believe every person/nation has a price, I wonder what was the price of US for letting the Chinese interrogators carrying out the sleep deprivation and sensory abuse of Uyghur detainees.

Does this mean we - Uyghurs need to got some hard cash in our hand in our hand in order to get international support for our struggle for human rights?

Other than cash what other methods may we use to get more attention of people in the world to give a vote for our cause?

"And another shining example of how inaccurate and incompetent our faithful hunters and gatherers of intelligence are."

It's always dangerous to accuse intelligence services of incompetence, because you know, at most, a quarter of what they do.

I am hoping Uyghur people can join our Tibetans to fight and terminate those Chinese. I will see some young Uyghur and Tibetan college students in Beijing to do some big things on 08/08/2008!!!!!

@ Tiako, would love to say you’re right, but America’s intel has been severely questioned since their ignominious intelligence debarkal of Iraq, and we all know how unreliable China are with their information sharing. Also at that time “good” intel. And those who new best were silenced by fear of “not being on the team”, even job loss in some cases. The fact that China and America so unquestionably took Uzbekistan intelligence that ETIM had links to macro-terrorist groups such as AQ @ a time when both the U.S, China and Uzbekistan all head vested interests, leads me to be highly suspicious of the intel gathered for this particular conflict: or at least during the period of 2001-2003.What is funny is that it has not been western or eastern who have uncovered the most about transnational terrorism in Xinjiang, but newspapers such as the New York times, who have had rare opportunities to interview ETIM members, but again, their were many inconsistencies in those articles, leading many to believe those members where simply beating there chests?

apologies for bad grammar...big night last night :)

@Tiako,

According US source, the left 7 of Uyghurs are dead hard fighters who did Chechenya and would fight anywhere for Jihad.

You probably missed the story that Uyghurs forces in Afghan ambushed and cycled American special forces and US asked China to send special ops to rescue them out. That is why US puts ETIM in the black list.

@sha.

we have heard that story before but it seems it is no more than that - a myth created in China. It is unlikely, but I spose if it somehow makes the Chinese feel good then it is a positive myth. I bet those Chinese special Ops are far more effective than the U.S. special forces? By the way the Americans usually get the Australian special forces to do this dirty work for them. There are no Chinese special forces in Afghanistan.

and I might add there is or was no ETIM.

@ Sha,

the reason the imaginaryt entity known as ETIM was put on America's so called black list was to placate China, so as it would support America's very dirty and unjust war in Iraq for oil and strategic place in the Middle East. This suited China who had in reality been carrying out by then, a sseven-year long pogrom against Uyghur culture and its more strident culture bearers- nationalists and in cases Islamicists. This was done under the aegis and ruse of the Strike Hard (Yanda) anti-crime campaign. I lived in the region for several years during this time (95-98) and saw the results first hand. Then the Ili demonstration was turned into a bloody massacre in 97 which increased the oppression of the Uyghur: summary executions, 'legal' executions, massive imprisonment and torture went on from 97 into the new millenia. The 2002 decision was a further justification for CCP and Han Chinese oppression of the Uyghur in their own land. It was convenient for the CCP to name ETIM - the East Turkestan Islamaic Movement as its number One enemy. Why? Because most Uyghur nationalist groups past and present have used this name - it is the name of their land; some use "Uyghuristan"; but Easten Turkestan is common. So China can blame all Uyghur resistance to their rule whether it is Islamic based or not on ETIM. Any one who now uses the name East Turkestan is branded a terrorist or in league with that other great imaginary entity - Al Qaida.

Basically Bush sold the Uyghur out to the Chinese as a reward for backing his thilthy lies. They backed his and America backed theirs! China smiled and executed a few more Uyghur boys for dreaming of their own country.

Fortunately there are many in America who see through this lie and are friends of the Uyghur and other oppressed people. The Chinese tyranny is about to fall- so you may be free one day too good friend Sha.

It is stupid logic to discount the activities of foreign fighter in Afghanistan. Wrong place wrong time? You bet, these terrorists will kill any westerner on site without a word. Now that they were captured, they sure use the wrong time wrong place excuse to escape justice.
By the way, if they are innocent, they sure can be absorbed into the US as refugee like many other uighur before them.
The fact of the matter is, these are muslim fanatics who wanted a great turkistan, then a world domination by their mullah when other buy into their fuzzy logic.

I am hoping Uyghur people can join our Tibetans to fight and terminate those Chinese. I will see some young Uyghur and Tibetan college students in Beijing to do some big things on 08/08/2008!!!!!
=============================
As a Han Chinese, I has always been hoping that your people (Tibetan & Uyghur) can DO something big.
very good!
We need you to do some thing.

"You probably missed the story that Uyghurs forces in Afghan ambushed and cycled American special forces and US asked China to send special ops to rescue them out."

There are many, many reasons to say this is a false story, but the most obvious is simple geography. Not only does Afghanistan never touch China, it never even comes close. Simple practicality dictates that trapped US forces would call other Americans, if only for location (ie, ignoring America's military superiority and the politics involved).

@James

Your statement makes sense and matches with the evidences. But I think it needs to be have further analyzed.

Is there any other reason for backing the Chinese government in Uyghur issue for American government?

The reason why i am asking this question is chinese government not very sensitive to international issues unless it creates a threat to her own interest, many times china just said "we feel sorry or regret to see blah blah" , if the issue concerns with them directly they will be involved such as north korea or central asia cases.
But as far as I know China does not have much interest in Iraq, so why america think she needs chinese support up to a a level to sell out Uyghurs?
is there any other trade for this? or china make america to believe uyghurs are a threat to america?

@Tiako: Actually, Afghanistan does have a short border with China in Xinjiang (map)... very close to the Tajik-populated city of Taxkorgan.

"Not only does Afghanistan never touch China, it never even comes close"

Tiako, get a geography course before openning your mouth, give me a break!

@kehan

re:

"The fact of the matter is, these are muslim fanatics who wanted a great turkistan, then a world domination by their mullah when other buy into their fuzzy logic."

Thanks for this but can you back up this statement. Qualify it? How do yu know this? Because no-one knows who they are or what their exact charges are; only their interrogators perhaps. So how do yu know? Or are u assuming they were part of the pan-Turkistan movement. Im open to that suggestion but prove it or else prove who yu speak for by saying it

Forgive me for being ignorant, but I thought Xinjiang shared a 27 km border with Afghanistan?

@Dilyar

re:

"But as far as I know China does not have much interest in Iraq, so why america think she needs chinese support up to a a level to sell out Uyghurs?
is there any other trade for this? or china make america to believe uyghurs are a threat to america?"

It was important for America to get China as UN security council member to back them. they would have invaded without their blessing- but it was made easier if China did not object/obstruct.

maybe China did do a good job to convince the paranoiacs who run America that the Uyghur somehow threatened them.

As it turns out most of the Uyghur at GTMO bay were no threat and should be compensated financially for their many years of abuse under American captors; who relied on faulty Intelligence and a panic mentality at the time of capture. The "seven" left if they are indeed hard core leftovers from earlier jihad in Afghnaistan, then that is also understandable, they fought the Russians, then maybe the northern Alliance?????

They are Central Asians in Central Asia; albeit escapees from the dark and oppressive occupation of their own land by the CCP. But if they were in Afghanistan for many years unable to return to China - that did not make them enemy combatants or enemies of the USA. Whether right or wrong, They were fighting for their own cause within Afghanistan, their adopted home. I suppose is another way to look at it. They should also be released. GTMO bay is a monstrosity, the fact Chinese Intelligence were allowed in to torture Uyghur captives either directly or indirectly only
re-enforces the evil nature of this awful prison on occupied territory within the Caribbean.

aaaaa@dyn

nice to se eth blood lusting dyn back on track. Could you please let us know exactly what type of big thing yu are expecting from the Uighur and Tibeatns??? What would you like. Probabaly better still for the sensationalist post: what will be your respsonse little dyn? Come on act tough in front of your cyber comrades.

@James (ETIM spokesperson)

you al qaeda sympathizer. so when uighur terrorists get caught with al qaeda, they are poor unfortunate people stuck in another country huh?

"they are Central Asians in Central Asia; albeit escapees from the dark and oppressive occupation of their own land by the CCP. But if they were in Afghanistan for many years unable to return to China - that did not make them enemy combatants or enemies of the USA. Whether right or wrong, They were fighting for their own cause within Afghanistan, their adopted home."

fighting their own cause? so you are saying uighurs are unlikely to be caught up with religious fanaticism and will not engage in terrorist atrocities? they are just unfortunately stuck in afghanistan? so you are saying their support for the taliban is justified? you're disgusting,

you're a terrorist sympathizer, i think guantonomo should stay open, they need a loud mouth terrorist lover to brighten up the place.

dear Rob

as I said I dont believe ETIM exists or at least as they say it does. im not the only one - go and do your homework. read deeply and widely. even academic journals by experts outside of China and the American defence reports' experts. I also do not believe that Al Qaida exists so how can i be a sympathizer????? where's your logic and reasoning. You twist my meaning throughout your nasty little rant above. Hey man why do people run away form China? Because if your are a Uyghur the place sucks and they kill young Uyghurs there- often- or lock em fucken up for the rest of their long lives in shitty desert prison holes. Whose arms do they fall into - yu got it- Taliban. Hezb i Tharir, etc. yes they exist; and its probabaly there you need look rather than bloody Al Qaida and its dead, putative leader.

I did qualify my statement by saying whether right or wrong. I did not say their support for the Tailiban was allright - you did. I find the Taliban reprehensible and guys with dicks for brains like yu no different.

I didnt say they were right. I said they found themselves there and were absorbed into and indoctrinated into such groups. The fact so many have been released from your prefered place of residence - GTMO - proves how wrong the US and China was about them. They were there as refugees in afghanistan. Some may have been fighting against the Nortehrn Allaince at a time when America was not involved in their war gainst terror. That was their choice. Im not saying if it was right or wrong. Im not them and I dont know the full story and neither do you obviously.

Do yu understand survival and desperation. Afghanistan as aplace of passage from pakistan to Iran and Turkey? Have yu no understnding of situational reality of Central Asian geography? No, of course not Rob. So to put it plainly. Shut ya ignorant trap. and pleasssse no more indoctrinated, paranoid, fear please. stop being a mouth piece yourself of ignorance or whatever yu think yu stand for or are paid to stand for. Its all right yu are safe wherever yu are. Al Qaisa arent coming to get yu. ETIM are a fairy tale, and theres no big bad Uyghurs near yu, are there?

...just bury your head in propaganda some more yull be fine.

@ Rob, I think the general gist of what he is saying is that the evidence that presupposes ETIM as an actual group at all is contentious. I tend to agree with him.

The facts arn’t there. I challenge anyone to present evidence that puts ETIM at any terrorist event where loss of life transpired. I’ve been search for the last few years and I can’t. Now, if you were talking of ETIO then you'd have an argument... but ETIM... smokes, mirrors, and bad intel.

@Sha,
Re:

"According US source, the left 7 of Uyghurs are dead hard fighters who did Chechenya and would fight anywhere for Jihad."

could you or anyone out there provide this honorable forum with a reference for this U.S. source concerning the "seven" Uyghurs from Hell.

@ Jimba. thanks for your ability to say what i am trying to say in a more balanced, succinct and prescriptibve tone. Yes I agree too.

That Most and i mean most Uyghur do not adhere to fundamentalist visions of Islam is something that cannot be stressed enough. Taliban, hez bi Tahrir etc have very little appeal. Throw up a few wolf symbols and that is far more likely to get em going. On that point the merging of pan-Turkic and pan-Islamicist views found among some Central Asian groups would have a certain appeal.

from what i have read, whether you believe they exist or not is trivial. you agree with these group's goals, and ends, by any means.

you sympathize with these terrorists, by terrorist i mean non state actor who use violence on civilians for political goals.
by toning done their identity as poor lost souls who got caught up in a war, is sympathy.

you probably want a taliban like govt in xinjiang huh? dirty terrorist lover.

If Ilich Ramirez Sanchez (a.k.a the Jackal) represented extreme leftist ideology of yesterday, and Osama bin Ladan represents extreme Islamic ideology of today, than I assert Rob, that you represent the extreme ultra-nationalist rightist movement of tomorrow.

Just because eMeerica foolishly listed ETIM as a terrorist organisation does not automatically mean they exist. Indeed, a prominent Uighur terrorist accused ETIM leader, Mahsum, as being a "Chinese Spy". Furthermore, the "intelligence" the U.S used to list them came from Kyrgyzstan... a country whose intel service amounts to an old retired Russian policeman asking locals if they've seen any “capitalists” lately?!?

Furthermore, if you know ANYTHING about terrorism you will know that groups as loosely based as ETIM cannot survive without tier one personnel (the leaders - the ideologues) and tier two personnel, the hardcore fighters willing to die for their cause. As Musham was killed in Pakistan in 2003 and "19" ETIM members captured in 2007, it would appear their capacity to launch a macro-terrorist attack is limited at best, or simply inaccurate or made-up at worst.

The recent "Olympic raids" you say? Osama bin Ladan as their main Ideolgue you rant? Check this: the Jan. 08 raids were a farce. Investigative reporters who subsequently interviewed neighbors found no raid, only a police car and a couple of cops who peacefully took two “suspects” into custody. Regarding bin Ladan, The one Uighur, Kariaji, who claims to have met Osama bin Ladan, alleges he was disappointed insofar as the supremo-terrorist No.1 was not particularly interested in China and infact failed to mention the “East Turkistan” forces or China at all in the presence of his Uighur guest.

I have before me an American “China brief”, where a leading U.S academic, Elizabeth Van Wei Davis, states as a truth that:

“There are also well-known links with the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) and perhaps lesser known links to current camps north of Kabul. Unfortunately, some Uighur militants in Xinjiang and the diaspora community have linked into the Islamist network, which operates within a corridor that overlaps drug trafficking routes and facilities that movement of militants, weapons and explosives.”

Sounds fair enough, but where’s the evidence??? Oh. Yes hear it is… (China Daily, Janurary 8, 2007)…. The China Daily, the bastion of bipartisan and objective media coverage of all things China… I mean, c’mon fella, if America’s best and brightest are supporting this arguments via Chinese media… then…. Does this not send just a few blinkers in your lil head flashing? You need a big cup of “think outside the square my friend”.

@jimba

the way you downgrade terrorists is similar to how saudi wahabi clerics say al qaedi is just a loose organization that defends islam.

the way you downgrade uighur terrorists is similar to how pakistani clerics said, oh the taliban, they were just a conservative islamic govt.

saying the they dont exit or they arent that bad, is sympathy.

@ Rob. Your definition of symapthy is eccentric .. i have no sympathy for such acts.
ESPECIALLY AFTER SEEING TEH LATEST FOTOS OF THE RESULTS OF SUICIDE BOMBINGS IN AGFGHNAISTAN BY 12 YEAR OLD NEWSPAPER BOYS. AT ANY RATE YOUR INSISITENCE THAT MY INNER THOUGHTS ARE THOSE of sympathy is discourse akin to that of thought police. maybe yu were at GTMO after all? Yu seem very disturbed by any criticism of it or the American and Chinese thugs in mention. At least yu are very adept at twisting words to make fit your own interpretations. Why bother when your answer is already formed in your head? It may just be your inner fears surfacing but please dont twist words or insist on knowing the thoughts of others.

Rob despite your charm and desperate need for affirmation I have to disagree with all that you say. Xinjaing will get a non-terrorist government and it will be good for the people. No terrorist government will prevail on this earth, so please my poor little sick boy project your fears and fantasies somewhere else. I think people like you at heart are the ones who like to torture, kill and maim. so as i said project your guilt soemwhere else; down with the terrorist Taliban; down with Uyghur terrorism; and more importantly Rob down with the biggest stinking terrorists in China - yep those who killed 70 million of your own countrymen at a conservative guess - the grand masters of terrorism and death and fear - the CCP.

Gimme facts Rob, not rhetoric.

whats more Rob. Your reasoning is inverted. If one says They dont exist therefore they are a sympathizer. Denial of their existence then is not an option for according to you they do exist -end of question; but no proof - of course not. just mindless propaganda feeding into a vacuous mind full of fear.

Then of course according to you the 'non-state actor' who uses violence is a terrorist while the state that uses it is not - thats OK? Tell that to the Israelis and their freedom fighters of yore. How warped - all use of violence is wrong- but you wouldnt agree with that - yu just want 'legal' violence. Like the historian Timothy Brooks who somewhat waters down the CCPs complicity in state violence aginst its own students by comparing the Tiananmen massacare with what happened in Somalia shortly after June 4, in July 1989 when state troops opened fire in the city square on defenseless citizens in Mogadishu. So he argues that violence belonged to a bigger picture of Third World Countries using violence when unable to handle a political challenge. Normative therefore. You have a lot of reading to do Rob; that is if you are at all serious. State Violence legitimate? Non-state Violence Illigitimate? hmmmm...by saying this I do not legitimize non-state violence I am just saying that all violence is wrong. To say something doesnt exist cannot be equated with sympathy. What kind of reductionist thinking is this? And by teh way I ahve the right to believe that. Whos ays I must believe they exist? Tell em, who says I must believe what you believe?...Huh big fella? Che fanle meiyo?

@Rob

this should satisfy your blood lust:

fortunately the photographs are not visible in the article.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/inside-a-suicide-blast/2008/05/23/1211183102758.html

@Jimba

re:

"Elizabeth Van Wei Davis, states as a truth that:

'There are also well-known links with the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) and perhaps lesser known links to current camps north of Kabul. Unfortunately, some Uighur militants in Xinjiang and the diaspora community have linked into the Islamist network, which operates within a corridor that overlaps drug trafficking routes and facilities that movement of militants, weapons and explosives.'”

Ive seen this type of American Defense academy stuff before always full of generalizations and assumptions based on hearsay. Whats the other one who writes for the Naval Academy on all the different types of Uygur separatist groups??? They quote errant academics who have an ahistorical sino-centric perpective in their oft quoted research; and propagate their conclusions into their strategic assesments of the Uyghur separatist/terrorist movements. They also rely upon the many identity studies of the Uyghur which now abound which posit identity in terms of Uyghur difference to the Chinese. That is they are also sino-centric in their definition of Uyghur identity. Identity is mainly constructed in opposition to the 'other' Chinese on one hand and on the other it is promulgated by the state: yu are told who yu are. The periphery reality and self-identification and cultural practice are overlooked and 'passive' subjects with no historical agency are written into subjection by these sociological and pseudo anthropological studies; which already have their answers set in place before the research has been commenced. Let me prove yu matheory by using the Uyghur as an example: oh they are so interesting as subjects of study and discourse; though this perspective is changing now and by some who formerly upheld it. It was an academic starting point I guess: viewing Uyghur as Chinese subjects - which they are, but, such views overlook self-identification and only feed into and enfirce a distorted westernized 'geo-political' depiction of the Uyghur vis a vis their relation to the imperial Chinese state/overlord/colonizer/etc/

That aright thankyou Mr. Google: the article in mention is ::

"Constituting the Uyghur in U.S.-China Relations: The Geopolitics of Identity Formation in the War on Terrorism
Strategic Insights, Volume I, Issue 7 (September 2002)
by Gaye Christoffersen"

These 'studies' feed off Chinese stereotypes of Uyghur and take American intel as first hand and reliable. 'Hah yeah WMDs all over the motherfucken place tha boy'. as such they are online geopolitical media fare for the uninformed and malnourished; kinda like junk food in comparison to a macrobiotic diet.

this type of stuff Christofferson writes is utter bunkum. and its sposed to be treated oh so seriously like because it has some American naval academy insignia on it. Yup there's the imprimatur we need baby. In fact there is little real reliable information on any Uyghur separatist groups; that is mainly because inside China they hardly exist. Outside the worker's paradise that is a different thing. Many no longer exist because of CHINA'S RUTHLESS CRACKDOWN SINCE THE MID 90s, WELL SINCE BAREN (Ap 1990) ACTUALLY.

The awful problem here is the net they cast is very wide and many innocent ordinary Uyghurs are imprisond, tortured or worse in these mindless and merciless clampdowns. Why a clampdown? because of reaction to draconian Chinese policy. because of the obliteration of the right to self-determination and self identification (just like the academie has shown in sino-centric studies funnily enough). If CCP policies toward Xinjiang were fair and equitable there wouldnt be any problem there. The problem is on the side of the oppressor not the Uyghur. The Uyghur are not fanatical Muslims.

Hey, nice article. Thanks James.

Ironic how America's brightest can be so stupid in instead of chasing truth they are in effect chasing their own tail by attempting to substantiate poor decisions by their government.

I also find it interesting that a country such as Oz, whose Govt. is keener than ever to court China are quite happy for their brightest to tear into China on blaring opprobrious behaviour.

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a792712123~db=all~jumptype=rss

Good journal by Griffith University's Dr. M. Clarke on the subject: Abstract

"The paper argues that violent Uighur separatism and terrorism conforms in a number of important respects to the human security theory of terrorism, particularly in the realm of political and civil rights. However, it argues that impetus has been given to the various separatist organisations in the region by the development of interconnections between the largely internal aspects of China's policy of integration in the region and the wider central and South Asian dynamic of Islamic radicalism since 1990."

James Said: "Whats the other one who writes for the Naval Academy on all the different types of Uygur separatist groups???"

You're not referring to Wayne I. Martin are you? He released a book recently, "China’s War on Terrorism: Counter-insurgency, politics and internal security" He also states as a truth without properly explaining it through that China has an "Al Qaeda" problem. But even he refrains from linking AQ with ETIM, infact, I believe on page 47. He warns the reader from doing so.

Just wanted to correct the record here- there are 17 Uyghurs left at Guantanamo. Only 5 have been released thus far. Four of those are in Albania. One of those is seeking asylum in Sweden.

@Jimba

re:

"You're not referring to Wayne I. Martin are you? He released a book recently, "China’s War on Terrorism: Counter-insurgency, politics and internal security" He also states as a truth without properly explaining it through that China has an "Al Qaeda" problem. But even he refrains from linking AQ with ETIM, infact, I believe on page 47. He warns the reader from doing so."

No I was referring to Christoferson whose article title I posted. Her categorizations of Uyghur society based on their allegiance to certain separist/terrorist groups are absurd. As if the entire 10 million Uyghur can be categorized as fitting into one of these groups. But yu know the enlightenment mind - want everythhing neatly categorized. She also rides high on Rudelson's a priori assumption that the Tarim oases cultures have always been divided from each other by isolation (an ahistorical assumption)and therefore his much lauded thesis of a divided Uyghur identity. Faulty scholarship feeding on faulty scholarship. The oases of the Tarim basin experienced cluster groupings way back into the Han dynasty. The idea of Isolation is culturally relative. Some Australain academic has written a paper about this someplace. Was Unaware of Clarke's work I'll see if I can get hold of it.

@ Weeger

thanks

17 not 7. Any info on them for us?

If your son would like to separate from the family, although you will be very sad, but there is no problem.
If your leg, your kidney want to separate from your body, how do you do?
If other people 'HELP' your leg or your kidney separate from your body, how would you do this?
You will certainly kill this person.
XinJiang & XiZang are not China's son, they are China's leg and kidney.
If Uyghur and Tibetan do not want to be our brothers and sisters, no problem, they can choose to leave this family.
Do NOT think about to take away an inch of land.

haha, we really NEED you(Tibetan&Uyghur terrorists and splittists) to do some thing big.
just like you have done in Lasa and XinJiang.
more big, more better.
more awful, more great.

Ignite the fire of anger of the every normal Han Chinese people.
please be quick!
we will give you a bit of color see see, haha.

Dalai Lama should be sentenced to death.

@dyn.

yu can longer provoke the ire of any sensible person.

Uyghur= the land of East Turkestan.

Tibetan = land of Tibet.

China= land of Han

Looks like China aint got two legs and needs a kidney transplant. Dyn being so patriotic could you please donate your kidney/ Or should we just steal one from the corpse of an executed Uyghur patriot? Hu?

Enough blood for you in Sichuan at present? Wait til the dams burst;

and why arent yu tehre helping?

and Dyn, by the way

"Ignite the fire of anger of the every normal Han Chinese people.
please be quick!

I do not consider yu to be a normal Han Chinese peopel . For God sake stop insulting your race by assuming to speak for them. Stop embarrassing normal Chinese peopel- coz buiddy yu aint normal. If yu are normal al Chinese are crazed blood lusting mabniacal nationalists. And I know tahy are not. You're a dopey little cunt who deserves to be locked up in a lunatic asylum. So leave China alone for China's sake.

Amnesty International Condemns U.S., China in Report

By MEERA SELVA
The Associated Press
Wednesday, May 28, 2008; 1:03 AM

LONDON -- The United States is shirking its duty to provide the world with moral leadership and China is letting its business interests trump human rights concerns in Myanmar and Sudan, a human rights group said Wednesday.

Amnesty International's annual report on the state of the world's human rights accused the U.S. of failing to provide a moral compass for its international peers, a long-standing complaint the London-based group has against the North American superpower.

This year it also criticized the U.S. for supporting Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf last November when he imposed a state of emergency, clamped down on the media and sacked judges.

"As the world's most powerful state, the USA sets the standard for government behavior globally," the report said. It charged that the U.S. "had distinguished itself in recent years through its defiance of international law."

As in the past, the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay came in for criticism. Irene Khan, Amnesty's secretary-general, appealed for the American president elected in November to announce the jail's closure on Dec. 10, 2008, the 60th anniversary of the Declaration of Human Rights.

The State Department had no immediate comment on the report, but said the U.S. was justified in detaining enemy combatants at Guantanamo to prevent them from returning to the battlefield. The State Department has previously said Amnesty uses the U.S. as "a convenient ideological punching bag."

Emerging power China came in for a few punches, too. The report said China had continued shipping weapons to Sudan in defiance of a U.N. arms embargo and traded with abusive governments like Myanmar and Zimbabwe. It said that China's media censorship remains in place and that the government continues to persecute rights activists.

The report also accused China of expanding its "re-education through labor" program, which allows the government to arrest people and sentence them to a manual labor without trial.

But Amnesty said it detected a shift in China's position: In 2007, China persuaded the Sudanese government to allow U.N. peacekeepers into the Darfur region and pressured Myanmar to accept the visit of a U.N. special envoy.

Khan told The Associated Press that it was much easier to grapple with human rights problems when the West and China worked together.

"China has the leverage to work with certain governments," she said ahead of the report's release. But she said China needed to use that leverage responsibly.

"China is clearly a global power. With that comes global responsibility for human rights. It needs to recognize that economic growth is not enough," Khan said.

The Chinese Embassy in London referred a query about the report to Beijing officials. A woman who answered the phone at the Foreign Ministry in Beijing said the ministry would look into the report. She refused to comment further or to give her name or position.

China has rejected previous such reports. It says its human rights record has improved in recent years.

Amnesty International said people are still tortured or ill-treated in at least 81 countries, face unfair trials in at least 54 and are denied free speech in at least 77.

But the report also highlighted an increase in mass demonstrations around the world, citing that as a positive sign of a growing willingness by people to fight for their rights.

"Black-suited lawyers in Pakistan, saffron-robed monks in Myanmar, 43.7 million individuals standing up on Oct. 17, 2007, to demand action against poverty, all were vibrant reminders last year of a global citizenry determined to stand up for human rights and hold their leaders to account," it said.

© 2008 The Associated Press

Lawmakers demand freedom for Chinese held at Gitmo
By LARA JAKES JORDAN
Associated Press Writer
4 June 2008

WASHINGTON (AP) - Lawmakers chastised the Bush administration on Wednesday for allowing the Chinese government to interrogate Chinese Muslim detainees at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay and demanded they be freed in the United States.

The two lawmakers, Reps. Bill Delahunt, D-Mass., and Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., said the Uighurs -- members of a Chinese ethnic group -- should be compensated and apologized to for any abuse they may have suffered while held in the detention center at U.S. naval base in Cuba.

Uighurs fled their homeland in western China and settled in Afghanistan and Pakistan, only to be swept up later in the U.S.-led dragnet for terrorists after the Sept. 11 attacks.

A federal judge has called their imprisonment unlawful, but the Bush administration opposes releasing them unless they can go to a country other than the United States.

At a House Foreign Affairs hearing on interrogation methods at Guantanamo, Delahunt asked Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine to confirm that Chinese officials were let into the prison.

"We were informed that the Chinese government sent people to interview and interrogate the Uighurs," Fine said.

Additionally, Fine said, FBI officials reported that U.S. military personnel woke up Uighurs every 15 minutes in a sleep-depravation interrogation tactic known as "the frequent flyer program" before the Chinese interrogators arrived.

"Did they draw the conclusion that this was, that we had American military personnel collaborating, doing this to, if you will, soften up the Uighurs for examination by Chinese Communist agents?" Delahunt asked.

Fine answered: "They reported this was the technique that was used, what they call the frequent flyer program, to put the Uighurs in a position to be interrogated by the Chinese government."

Rohrabacher called the military's involvement "ridiculous." He said the Uighurs should be freed in the U.S.

"And we will call on the government to do so forthwith," Rohrabacher said. "And if it indeed looks like they've been unjustly treated that we offer some compensation as well as an apology."

Both lawmakers agreed to push the Bush administration to release the Uighurs in the U.S., although Delahunt predicted that Rohrabacher, a Republican, "will have more access to the powers that be than I will."

White House spokesman Tony Fratto declined to comment on the issue, and a spokesman for the State Department did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

Under U.S. law, the Uighur men cannot be sent back to China because they are likely to face persecution and torture. The administration has been seeking refuge for them in other nations, and five were sent to Albania in 2006. As of two months ago, 17 Uighurs remained at Guantanamo, awaiting countries to take them.

In March, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the U.S. has "no desire to be the world's jailer, and we look forward to the day Guantanamo is shut down. And part of that solution is working with other countries to take people back under the right circumstances."

A report by the human rights group Center for Constitutional Rights indicates that officials from at least 17 other countries have been allowed to interrogate their citizens being held at Guantanamo. The report accuses interrogators from six nations -- China, Uzbekistan, Libya, Jordan, Tajikistan and Tunisia -- abuse Guantanamo detainees with the consent of U.S. officials.

The group has for the last seven years sought access to U.S. courts for detainees at Guantanamo.

James say Xinjiang belong to Uighur, Xichang belong to tibetan, then by logic, US belong to the Red Indian, Austalia belong to the Aborigine, Brazil belong to the tribes now in their jungle, Canada and so on and so on. So it is legitimate to kill the people there like the uighur seperatist. What a fucking logic.

@khan

yes Ausytralia does belong to teh indigenous as does America. Whats more thyey belong to the spirit of those lands. But yu wouldnt understand that I guess. But excuse me it aint allright to kill anyone?? Who says that??? Only fascist pigs darling, only fascist pigs.

So American belong to the Red Indian, lets work for it. Start support a Nation of Idegenous people in Florida, return new mexico to mexico, El paso return to the chicano, Alaska to the inuit and Eskimo, I am sure I will get your support.