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April 23, 2008

Bear-Baiting China

Are Western protestors enraging a temporarily restrained giant?

There's an interesting column about the competing anti-China and pro-China protests in today's The Age, out of Australia. The author, Michael Backman, is apparently somewhat controversial but this is the first time I'm coming across his writing.

His basic argument is that the West, having invited China onto the world stage as a reward for immense progress in recent decades, is now busy embarrassing China for the work that still needs to be done. Thus, it's easy to see why Chinese people are offended:

Today, the West is involved in a game of bear-baiting with China. China has been awarded the right to host the Olympic Games, about which it has worked itself into feverish excitement and so, correspondingly, the West is in the process of humiliating China, with the Tibet issue being the West's most effective stick. It is daring China to respond, knowing that China won't because it does not want to risk a boycott of the Games. China is like a tethered bear.

Face is very important in Chinese culture and in the lead-up to the Games, the West is giving China no face at all. In the Western context, being publicly rebuked usually causes one to reflect on one's behaviour and wonder how one might improve. But humiliating China will simply make China angry. Protests aimed at the progression of the Olympic torch will not teach young Chinese in China that their Government is wrong on human rights. Instead, it is reinforcing their nationalism and hardening their attitudes against the West.

You can read the full column below. We're also seeing today that in addition to anti-Carrefour protests, one group of Chinese is looking to get back at CNN in true Western style... with a frivolous lawsuit:

A group of Chinese lawyers have sued CNN, saying remarks by commentator Jack Cafferty in which he called Chinese "goons" violated the dignity and reputation of the Chinese people, a Hong Kong newspaper said....

One of the 14 lawyers who launched the case told the newspaper Cafferty's remarks "seriously violated and abused the reputation and dignity of the plaintiffs as Chinese people, and caused serious spiritual and psychological injury to the plaintiffs."

The lawyers sought the restoration of the Chinese people's reputation through publications and in the media and asked for 100 yuan ($14.31) in damages, it said.

I'd happily pay the 100 yuan myself if I thought it would calm things down over here, but isn't expecting CNN to somehow restore the reputation of Chinese people around the world asking a bit much?

The West's favourite sport is the blame game, but China is keeping its cool
Michael Backman
23 April 2008
The Age
© 2008 Copyright John Fairfax Holdings Limited. (www.theage.com.au)

Many in the Tibetan exile community have the same Hollywood view as their Western supporters.

BEAR-BAITING was a popular pastime in medieval England. A wild bear would be captured, brought to a public place and chained to a pole. A pack of dogs would then be let free to taunt and attack it. The bear would swipe back wildly, much to the amusement of the assembled throng. What the bear lacked in sophistication it made up for with brute force.

Today, the West is involved in a game of bear-baiting with China. China has been awarded the right to host the Olympic Games, about which it has worked itself into feverish excitement and so, correspondingly, the West is in the process of humiliating China, with the Tibet issue being the West's most effective stick. It is daring China to respond, knowing that China won't because it does not want to risk a boycott of the Games. China is like a tethered bear.

Face is very important in Chinese culture and in the lead-up to the Games, the West is giving China no face at all. In the Western context, being publicly rebuked usually causes one to reflect on one's behaviour and wonder how one might improve. But humiliating China will simply make China angry. Protests aimed at the progression of the Olympic torch will not teach young Chinese in China that their Government is wrong on human rights. Instead, it is reinforcing their nationalism and hardening their attitudes against the West.

Last week, protesters in China called for a boycott of local outlets of French retailer Carrefour after protesters in France upset the Olympic torch relay. They also accused it of financing the Dalai Lama.

Of course China scores badly on human rights. We all know that. China knows that. When China's human rights performance is compared with the West you see how far China has to go. But compare it with its recent past and you see how far China has come.

Partly, Western activists and governments want to punish China for the sins of its past such as the killings in and around Tiananmen Square in 1989. But it is arguable whether a Tiananmen-style crackdown is even possible today. It is certainly far less likely. One reason is because many of the problems that caused the student protests then have been fixed. Students chanted for democracy but few understood what that meant. What they really wanted was better student allowances and student accommodation. They have this now.

China today is far richer than it has ever been. Its economy is now about eight times bigger in real terms today than it was in 1989. Real income per head has grown by seven times. Economic freedom is an important aspect of the totality of freedom - just ask any ordinary Chinese.

If human rights are measured in terms of not just the absence of tyranny but also the absence of poverty, then China's leadership has done more for human rights for a greater number of people than anyone in history.

Media diversity has grown enormously. New laws are being drafted. Women, particularly, have benefited. They are at the forefront of the export revolution. Jobs in factories mean that no longer are they a husband away from poverty. No longer must they endure abusive marriages because they have no other means of support. Millions of women in China now earn a living in their own right. But much more must be done. The pragmatic approach would be to congratulate China on its spectacular progress and then point out ways for further progress.

Tibet is important but it should not be allowed to capture the human rights debate. For one, it is not obvious that human rights abuses are worse in Tibet than elsewhere in China. Is freedom of worship severely curtailed in Tibet? Not so, judging by the numbers of monks, and yet elsewhere in China, for example, Falun Gong has been all but wiped out. Human rights abuses are almost certainly worse among China's minority Uyghur population. Executions among the Uyghurs are believed to be higher than anywhere in China. But who cares? The Uyghurs are Muslims.

The Dalai Lama chose to flee Tibet. But other disenfranchised leaders choose to stay put. Aung San Suu Kyi is one example. While the Dalai Lama decamps from one Grand Hyatt to the next, Aung San Suu Kyi remains under house arrest in her dilapidated Rangoon house.

And who fled with the Dalai Lama? Certainly not ordinary Tibetans. The bulk of those who fled were members of the nobility and their sympathisers, those who had the most to lose from the advancing communists.

When Mao's troops advanced on Shanghai, the rich of that city fled - mostly to Hong Kong.

So do the remnants of the Tibetan aristocracy, who comprise the vocal part of the Tibetans in exile, really speak for ordinary Tibetans in Tibet? The truth is that two generations ago this feudal elite was oppressing Tibet's ordinary folk in the most appalling manner.

Their children have never lived in Tibet and many now have the same Hollywood fantasy rosy-eyed view of it that their Western supporters have.

It is hard to know what ordinary Tibetans in Tibet think. There are no polls to tell us.

Chinese Lawyers Sue CNN Over "Goons" Comment: Report
April 22, 2008
By REUTERS
Filed at 11:38 p.m. ET

HONG KONG (Reuters) - A group of Chinese lawyers have sued CNN, saying remarks by commentator Jack Cafferty in which he called Chinese "goons" violated the dignity and reputation of the Chinese people, a Hong Kong newspaper said.

The Beijing-backed Wen Wei Po said the Beijing court had yet to accept the case, which comes amid a wave of criticism in China against Western news outlets in the wake of recent unrest in Tibet and disruptions to the Beijing Olympic torch relay abroad.

China's Foreign Ministry summoned CNN's Beijing bureau chief last week and demanded an apology after Cafferty said Chinese products were "junk," adding the remark: "They are basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they've been for the last 50 years."

One of the 14 lawyers who launched the case told the newspaper Cafferty's remarks "seriously violated and abused the reputation and dignity of the plaintiffs as Chinese people, and caused serious spiritual and psychological injury to the plaintiffs."

The lawyers sought the restoration of the Chinese people's reputation through publications and in the media and asked for 100 yuan ($14.31) in damages, it said.

In response to the Foreign Ministry's initial demand for an apology, CNN said there was no intent to cause offence and that Cafferty was offering a "strongly held" opinion of the Chinese government, not the people.

The Foreign Ministry, however, said the response was unsatisfactory and aimed to drive a wedge between the government and the Chinese people.

($1=6.988 yuan)

(Reporting by John Ruwitch; Editing by Nick Macfie)

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posted April 23, 2008 at 11:59 AM unofficial Xinjiang time | HaoHao This!

Comments

From crikey.com

3 . The torch waits quietly for its moment in the Canberra sun

Bernard Keane writes:

The Olympic Torch is currently resting comfortably in a Canberra hotel after its flight from Jakarta. That’s more than you’ll be able to say for Canberrans tomorrow morning, given torch relay organisers have cleverly designed the route to ensure the maximum number of workers in the Parliamentary triangle and what passes for the CBD in these parts will be blocked or delayed from reaching their workplaces. Canberrans have been told to get to work by 8.15am. Prepare for a Public Service-wide productivity surge tomorrow.

You have to hand it to the Keystone Cops of the AFP. Given plenty of encouragement to lock the place down and handed $2m to waste, they’ve erected kilometres and kilometres of metal barricades. There are literally tens of thousands of these things lining central Canberra at the moment, and some fencing contractor must have struck it filthy rich.

The AFP have also inexplicably "closed" Lake Burley Griffin for most of tomorrow. While this will doubtless prevent the planned marine assault by the Royal Tibetan Navy, it has infuriated businesses that make their living from running cruises and, one assumes, that mob who rent out those pedal boats that are compulsory experiences for any tourists enjoying our fine city.

And it’s not too late for yet another twist in the saga of the flame attendants, whom John Coates revealed today wouldn’t be staying on the bus but would be running alongside the torch – all the better to throw their bodies around it, as the Chinese Ambassador suggested last night, although he later claimed he’d been "misrepresented", presumably by his own mouth, since that’s exactly what he said. Not to worry, though, because he’s taken the precaution of bussing in Chinese students to run their own interference with anyone daring to protest.

China’s Foreign Ministry have warned against protests in Canberra because the torch "belongs to the whole world". That the corrupt thugs who run China (latest effort – dispatching a boatload of weapons to fellow despot Bob Mugabe) object to expressions of dissent even in other countries is no surprise. But let’s get over this fetishisation of the Olympics.

Year after year the same faces, the Kevin Gospers and John Coateses who are apparently on the Olympics gravy train for life, stand up to declare that it’s all about the sport, or world peace, or the youth of the world. In fact it’s a giant media event designed to generate massive revenue which, this time around, is being employed to promote one of the world’s most brutal regimes.

And you can see where these sports administrators come from. Just about every athlete or sports person parrots the same lines about sport having nothing to do with politics or, for that matter, morality, as if sports – professional, international sport, in all its cash-generating glory – is somehow a priori disconnected from basic ethics and standards of civilized behaviour.

For those planning to have a crack at disrupting the relay, or who just want to marvel at some wonderful security overkill, the event kicks off at 8.30am tomorrow morning.

The location? Reconciliation Place. That’s Olympian-level irony.

The comment above was posted by James Hughes at April 23, 2008 01:22 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Actually, we do hear from ordinary Tibetans a fair bit, even though there are no Gallup-style polls. So Backman is being a tiny bit disingenuous.

The comment above was posted by Tp, at April 23, 2008 02:30 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Why do you say "anti-China" protestors? I'll be going to Canberra to demonstrate tomorrow but I'm not anti-China. That's llike the Republicans calling the Democrats anti-American. You can believe in a more just and free society with being anti-China.

The comment above was posted by Mick at April 23, 2008 03:12 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

hey James,

i think your boyfriend was the same coward/pussy who attacked the handicapped girl in the wheel chair in Paris right?? and i bet your dad is jack cafferty, ugly beast looks runs in the family.

honestly, why is tibet such a big deal? seriously i dont get it. other people are dying in the world, in the millions but no one cares about them?

oh i guess its ok bc when white people kill brown people, its called war on terrorism, self defense, and collateral damage. but any other time, its called genocide and human rights abuses.

pro tibetans activists are cowards, go grow some balls and brains.

white people are such hypocrites, they cherry pick their human rights victims.


Al Shaprton for President yo!


The comment above was posted by kangeroo at April 23, 2008 04:11 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

What a refreshing read this Michael Backman makes - it makes a change to hear from someone who may know what he's talking about, rather than some jumped-up free tibet campaigners - good find Michael, hope Beijing is treating you well babe, loads a love Zxx

The comment above was posted by Zoe at April 23, 2008 06:06 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.


The following two articles make some good points about how hypocritical the western media has been in regard to human rights.


The Hypocrisy and Danger of Anti-China Demonstrations

US Won’t Get a Gold Medal for Human Rights

IMO, most of these demonstrations are political theater in which protesters are being used to advance interests they don't even understand.

The comment above was posted by ouyang at April 23, 2008 07:58 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

I think someone has fallen in to the trap of "If you say anything not really nice about China, you are anti-China." This is a great way to look at today's world. It gives you hatred and anger.

The comment above was posted by Tina at April 23, 2008 08:31 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

My apology to Jack Cafferty and CNN

I think Jack Cafferty is basically the same goon and thug he has been for the last 50 years. He behaved exactly like such a goon and thug on April 9 when he faked as a commentator during a junky show on poisonous CNN.

I am aware of concerns about my comments related to Jack Cafferty and CNN in the context of his foregone stupid mouth exercise and CNN’s circus shows, which I just made a moment ago.

I would like to clarify that it was not my intent to cause offense to Jack Cafferty and CNN, and would apologize to anyone who has interpreted the comments in this way.

I am a person that reports the news in an objective and balanced fashion. However, as part of my coverage I also employ myself as a commentator who provides robust opinions that generate debate.

On this occasion I was offering my strongly held opinion of Jack Cafferty and CNN, not the American people, not all US news organizations – a point I am clarifying immediately after I made the comments.

It should be noted that over many years, I have expressed critical comments on many people and many news organizations, including the American people and its leaders, and American news organizations and their managers.

The comment above was posted by CNN copyright stolen by Chinese at April 23, 2008 10:39 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

I have a problem with this statement:

"His basic argument is that the West, having invited China onto the world stage as a reward for immense progress in recent decades, is now busy embarrassing China for the work that still needs to be done."

The West isn't a single entity. To say that "the West" has been rewarding China, and that "the West" is embarrassing China, is absolutely wrongheaded and foolish. If many Chinese people can't understand the simple concept of individuality, then they can have fun in their backwards, corrupt, authoritarian tyranny for the rest of human history.

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 24, 2008 03:26 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@kangeroo, you are no doubt the kind of goon and thug Cafferty was referring to. I used to have some sympathy for China (yeah, I know, you couldn't care less, fine). But seeing how you and your fellow young Chinese nationalist goons and thugs react to any criticism of your precious Hua-land, I am really fed up. Anyone who can read Chinese knows what I'm talking about, all the young Chinese punk goons and thugs posting their poison all over the internet. To hell with you, you pathetic tools! Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "coward/pussy/hypocrite/beast/ball-less", etc.

You are no better than the American Bushbots, maybe worse, at least they don't take every single criticism as some kind of assault on America's national sovereignty...trying to discuss anything rationally with most Chinese (with their stupid, mindless obsession with "face") is a waste of time.

What was I thinking, wasting my college years studying the Hua People and their precious 5 million year old (or whatever it is this week) culture?

You are right, Michael, "china.notspecial.org" indeed! Next time I hear another Chinese spout that garbage about "China is different! China is special!" I'm gonna puke all over his shoes!

The comment above was posted by photog at April 24, 2008 04:08 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

"If many Chinese people can't understand the simple concept of individuality, then they can have fun in their backwards, corrupt, authoritarian tyranny for the rest of human history."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtFVQe4JRmA

Here is example East vs West. Obviously West will die-hard believe themself superior and righteous. East just is just inferior no matter what.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtFVQe4JRmA

Wait minutes, East Human is absolutely no different from West. There is no racial difference. Only one standard apply to all human. It got be western standard. (Bunch of liberal political correct bullshit)

The comment above was posted by East vs West at April 24, 2008 05:12 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtFVQe4JRmA

Amazing, culture difference even in insects.

East=collectivsm.
West=individualism.

I will not pass judgment which is better. But it is product of enviroment. One govement system or managment style of coporation which works well in one population might be disaster for another. Neocons export of democracy is one perfect example.

The comment above was posted by IC at April 24, 2008 05:21 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

hey photog,

you are a stereotypical westerner who has been to china few times, thinks he knows everything about Chinese people/culture

ok first, im not Chinese, im korean, why do westerners always assume when someone is sticking up for china and is anti western, they are automatically Chinese? westerners are so damn arrogant, they think everyone loves them, and anyone who doesnt, is some corrupt authoritarian pawn from china.

travel the world photog, you're hated, its not just chinese who hate you, everyone does.

photog, why dont you go protest for some real crimes, like the ones your family are committing in iraq, afghanistan, the west bank, gaza, colombia.

The comment above was posted by kangeroo at April 24, 2008 07:56 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@kangeroo. Why don t yu have some balls then and go and protest in North korea smart arse.

The comment above was posted by James at April 24, 2008 10:15 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@kangeroo, "travel the world photog, you're hated, its not just chinese who hate you, everyone does"

And the Olympic torch run shows how much the world loves China. As far as knowing about China is concerned, you have no idea what I know, you only deal in stereotypes...I know too much about China and I'm doing my best to forget it.

So you're a foul-mouth Korean punk instead of a Chinese. Big deal. I wish you could enjoy living under the wonderful CCP, or even better, the "Dear Leader" Kim Jong-il. So much better than the evil west, I'm sure.

The comment above was posted by photog at April 24, 2008 11:38 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

3 . Torch watch: Chinese out in force; others stay away

Canberra correspondent Bernard Keane writes:


The Olympic Torch Relay got underway in Canberra this morning amid massive security and a major display of Chinese nationalism from the thousands of students bussed in for the event.

The official torch lighting ceremony itself was a rather lacklustre affair. Either there were massive withdrawals from the guest list or organisers vastly over-catered on chairs, leaving the smoking ceremony, national anthems and sundry speeches to be performed in front of rows and rows of empty seats. Crowds were kept fifty-odd metres away behind barricades.

Most Chinese students -- the majority carrying or wearing flags, and frequently directed by marshals in white t-shirts -- were more interested in chanting at and berating anti-China protestors, with at least one being arrested when he tried to jump the barricade to get at Tibetan independence supporters who were marching along the back of Reconciliation Place. Only a booming rendition of the Chinese national anthem got their attention briefly back to proceedings.

The occasional individual who advanced into the students clutching a Free Tibet placard was met with what appeared to be a prepared tactic of being surrounded by large Chinese flags. Otherwise, the two sides were kept well separated by the AFP. The infamous torch attendants - one of whom was reportedly later manhandled by a zealous AFP officer - kept a low profile, with only two joining in the vast throng of police officers surrounding the torch as it set off around Canberra. First stop was a trip across Lake Burley Griffin from the back of the ceremony venue - escorted by a small armada of police boats.

Despite it being clear for weeks that Chinese students, most likely organised by the Chinese Embassy, were flocking to Canberra for the event, organiser Ted Quinlan admitted today they hadn’t been prepared for it, expressing surprise at "a well-coordinated plan to take the day by weight of numbers." It was well-coordinated, and it was a huge success. You don’t have to go to China to see Chinese nationalism at work. Our capital city will do just fine.

Send your tips to boss@crikey.com.au , submit them anonymously here or SMS tips and photos to 0427 TIP OFF.

The comment above was posted by James at April 24, 2008 01:01 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

From crikey.com

11 . Australian sensitivity singles out the Yellow Peril
Jeff Sparrow writes:

In 1908, when the US navy docked in Australia, Prime Minister Deakin hailed the coming of the "Great White Fleet".

“The visit of the United States fleet is,” he explained, “universally popular here … because of our distrust of the Yellow Race in the North Pacific and our recognition of the ‘entente cordiale’ spreading among all white men who realise the Yellow Peril to Caucasian civilization, creeds and politics.”

White men with guns seem naturally reassuring to the psyche of a colonial settler state nestled in the midst of Asia. The armed yellow man induces quite a different effect. Compare the response to the Chinese torch attendants with the reaction to the personal army that George Bush brought to Sydney not so long ago.

Extraordinarily, Australian authorities have publicly threatened the Chinese security detachment – a busload of tracksuited men – with arrest if they lay so much as an Oriental finger on any Aussies.

Do you recall any similar official warnings directed to the US security posse?

Bush’s minders, of course, consisted not of a single bus but 150 national security advisers, 250 Secret Service agents, 200 public servants, 50 political aides, 15 sniffer dog teams, five chefs, six planes, a helicopter, limousines, Secret Service wagons, VIP guest vans and an ambulance.

His men were armed to the teeth and they casually took charge of the city without any governmental protestations about Australian control.

Yes, China is a vicious dictatorship. Yes, the Tibetan people and their protests deserve support. The complaints about demonstrations politicising the Olympics are nonsense. The Games are always political: that’s why China’s murderous gerontocracy wants to host them.

Yet one still feels a certain sympathy for the Chinese community and their resentment about being unfairly singled out.

Australians traditionally show a peculiar sensitivity to injustices committed by foreigners. The French found outrage about their nuclear testing a little hard to take, given Australia’s enthusiasm for uranium mining, just as the Japanese detect a certain hypocrisy in the sensitivity to whaling by a nation cheerfully gunning down Skippy to protect a military base.

More than that, with the Olympics, there’s an Australian history drenched in anti-Asian sentiment. The very first objective of the political party currently governing this country was, famously, the “maintenance of racial purity”, and you can understand why Chinese-Australians might detect in the current atmosphere echoes of our national poet Henry Lawson’s injunction to: “Get a move upon the Chinkies when you’ve got an hour to spare.”

Tibet should be free. Of course it should. But, then, the Chinese might respond: if military occupations are so odious, why are Australians still in Iraq?


Jeff Sparrow is the editor of Overland.

The comment above was posted by James at April 24, 2008 01:06 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

photog, so just bc three white countries protested, thats the whole world huh?

damn your ignorant, you dont know shit about china, maybe you know how to use chopsticks, thats about it i bet

say something intelligent, for me to counter, otherwise, shut your redneck mouth up. if you're so brave, why dont you come back to china, and talk your shit? haha pussy,

just like tibetan protesters. you'd probably only grow balls and attack someone, if they were a girl with one leg.

Al Sharpton for president!

The comment above was posted by kangeroo at April 24, 2008 07:56 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@phagtog

oh and btw i do live in china and i love it here.
you are just afraid bc we yellow people arent a billion poor farmers anymore with pitch forks.
so you hide behind tibet issue, ugihurs issue, what ever, cant face us head on.
the world your grand father left you is gone, and your grand kids will look at us like, shit dont f@ck with them

angry little white boy whose turn on the carnival ride is over, but hes crying and doesnt want to get off, its ok, we'll come and kick you off soon. haha.

the yoke the white man has had on the world is coming off.

The comment above was posted by kangeroo at April 24, 2008 10:00 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

I've seen this floating around the 'net today. As far as I can tell it was published in SCMP on April 18th, not the Washington Post.
••••

Do you find the Chinese "a bunch of goons and thugs" or do you see CNN as an abbreviation for "China Negative News"? In the past month, mainland internet users have vented their anger over what they deem "unfair" news coverage of the country. A blog by someone nicknamed "The silent, silent Chinese" described how a mainland person felt about the image crisis.

Below is translation of the piece entitled, What do you want from us? A poem dedicated to the last 150 years of this planet.

When we were called the sick man of East Asia, we were taken as the Yellow Peril

When we were propagandised as the next super power, we were taken as a threat

When we closed our doors, you opened the market by smuggling drugs

When we demonstrated our belief in free trade, you complained that we stole your jobs

When our country was torn into pieces, your army came and demanded a slice of the melon

When we put the pieces back together, you clamoured for us to free Tibet

Fine. Then we tried to live by communism, but you hated us for our communist rules

So we moved on and accepted capitalism, but you hated that too

When we had a population of 1billion, you said we were taking over the planet

When we implemented family planning, you said it was inhumane

When we were poor, you looked down on us as dogs

When we lent you money, you blamed us for adding to your debt

When we developed our industries, you said we were the world's main polluter

When we sold you our products, you blamed us for adding to the greenhouse effect

When we purchased oil, you said it added to exploitation and genocide

When you launched a war for oil, you said it was to liberate an oppressed race

When we had riots, you wanted to take over and implement laws for us

When we calmed the riots using our law, you said we violated basic human rights

When we stayed quiet, you demanded freedom of speech

When we were silent no more, you said we were brainwashed xenophobes

When we made products for you, you said we polluted the environment

When we stopped exporting some products, you said it was trade protectionism

When we asked why you hated us, you replied, "We don't hate you"

We then said we didn't hate you either, but asked if you even tried to understand us

"Of course!" you replied. "We have media such as AFP, CNN and the BBC. What do you want from us?"

Think about it carefully

The answer is: You think you are the only one deserving so many opportunities

Enough! This world has been hypocritical enough

We hope for "One World, One Dream" and a piece of the planet as well

This blue planet is big enough for all of us.

The comment above was posted by michael at April 25, 2008 12:23 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Michael, that "poem" is pretty stupid. The poem is saying "look, you did this thing 150 years ago that is different from your policy of today! WTF?"

Does China want to know what the West wants from it? OK, I'll help: 1. Free media and right to free speech. Hell, that one is in the Chinese constitution. 2. Stop the government sanctioned oppression of ethnic minorities. 3. Basic freedoms for the Chinese populace.

What Chinese people don't seem to understand is that there is a difference between criticizing the Chinese government, which is the single most murderous in human history, and saying all Chinese people are bad. What Westerners want is for the PRC to stop screwing over Chinese people. But the Communist Party, with its death grip on the Chinese media, has been playing this off this as "Look! Westerners hate you and want to split apart China and ruin your life!" That's bullshit, and I really wish more Chinese would learn to use large doses of salt with official government messages.

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 25, 2008 03:10 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

IC: I hate the common claim of "democracy only works for the West! The East is better served by a traditional system!" First, democracy has proven to work very well in East Asian nations. See Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. It works everywhere it is successfully implemented: It is no coincidence that all of the African nations with their shit together are, at least on some level, democratic. It has also worked quite well in Latin America.

The second reason I hate the claim is that it implies that East Asian states are well served by their corrupt, backwards, authoritarian tyrannies.

East vs. West: 1) That argument is really completely irrelevant. In fact, it's just kind of silly. I mean, unless you think hornets are a major factor in East Asian politics. 2) Get off the damn cross. You talk about racism? Then why is the West so approving of Japan and South Korea?

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 25, 2008 03:21 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

"We hope for "One World, One Dream" and a piece of the planet as well

This blue planet is big enough for all of us."


Well, we shall see. No doubt that the U.S. dominance in the world is ending, as the U.S. "leadership" is just too dumb and arrogant (have you seen that palace they are building in Baghdad as the new "embassy"? what a perfect symbol of American blindness to how the world perceives us).

So, will the Chinese do better?

The comment above was posted by photog at April 25, 2008 03:56 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

"So, will the Chinese do better?"

Probably not. We are only human. Probably won't have to pull an "Iraq" any time soon though, at the present we are perfectly content to let US to do all the policing while we reap the peace dividends.

What would we do after US exhaust itself in Imperial Overeach? Hopefully, continuing on the same path of "non-interference". Just build China into a super fortress, open to trade with all, but no external empire.

But as times goes on, there is no guarantee that our children or grandchildren won't grow soft in the head and follow down the same path to ruin as British has done in the past and Americans are doing now.

The comment above was posted by Cao Meng De at April 25, 2008 04:59 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

It isn't time to start celebrating the death of US hegemony. Not even close. The US still has by far the world's largest economy and most powerful military. Furthermore, it still has enormous political capital.

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 25, 2008 05:08 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

One more thing: The British Empire didn't succumb to "imperial exhaustion" or over-extension. Rather, it was simply superseded by the US, which was a far more dynamic and powerful nation. Europe was in ruins from WWII, and domination simply shifted to the US and USSR. Britain could no longer have a dominant foreign policy, so it bowed to the "wind of change" and decolonized.

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 25, 2008 05:13 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

"It isn't time to start celebrating the death of US hegemony."

True.

"Not even close. The US still has by far the world's largest economy and most powerful military."

As British Empire was still the top dog in 1908.

"Rather, it was simply superseded by the US, which was a far more dynamic and powerful nation."

Yup, same dynamic.

I am glad to have the privilege to live in an era where in my lifetime China will supersede US as the largest economy in the world, reclaiming the top spot lost since 1820. In fact I will do my bits to make sure that it come to pass. Either work harder or live longer : )


The comment above was posted by Cao Meng De at April 25, 2008 05:26 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@teiko

i hate to say it but this blogs attracts a bunch of ignorant people who have drowned in western propaganda.

some idiot said that south korea and japan are good examples of democracy and the US treats them nice.

I will tell you why, because both countries are american military bases idiot.

they are so approving of these two countries because they are America's bitch. trust me i know, i live with the stench of american occupation in my country and its humiliating.

If south korea and Japan werent american satellites, i guarantee you they wouldnt be democracies, and they wouldnt be rich countries.

so you will counter i know, isnt it better that Americans soldiers provided stability for you to reach your economic level.

then i ask you, did you like it when the british occupied your lands in america to help you reach your economic level. occupation is occupation and its humiliating, being occupied by foreigners who come from tens of thousand miles away who dont know your culture or history is wrong

id rather be poor and free rather than rich and someone's else bitch.

The comment above was posted by kangeroo at April 25, 2008 07:13 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ Cao
"So, will the Chinese do better?"

"Probably not. We are only human. Probably won't have to pull an "Iraq" any time soon though, at the present we are perfectly content to let US to do all the policing while we reap the peace dividends.

What would we do after US exhaust itself in Imperial Overeach? Hopefully, continuing on the same path of "non-interference". Just build China into a super fortress, open to trade with all, but no external empire. "


Dont assume China is even gonna get the chance. that is arrogance and hubris. Lets see what develops out of the Olympics. what is clear is that China's tyrannical rule is coming to an end...that will end long B4 the Ugliest of the western systems crumble.


yu see even if China did take over it could only rule by implementation of its tyranny and really there are an awful lot of people in free countries for them to murder, torture and imprison to sustain their rule as they do within China.

China is best off just trying to get its 75% population of peasantry out of the mud; stop playing super power games; humble itself about Taiwan abd drop its over the top fascist bellicosity: They never surrendered; and continue influencing world politics economically until the west wakes up, reinvests in its own industries, and stops buying inferior Chinese products because there is profit to be made -- and anyway speaking of "over reach": - everyone knows China is paying for the Americans war in Iraq. America allows it. China allows it- its called business. So....?

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 08:50 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

This author wrote quite a lot of juicy articles on Asia, one of which is "Malaysia Bodoh (Bodoh=stupid)" describing the lists of mega projects executed just for the sake of putting Malaysia on the world map but yielding no real benefits to the economy of the nation & also to enrich the political elites. He thus seems to possess an in-depth understanding of Asia as a whole.

I salute Mr Beckman for his professional journalistic integrity not to immerse himself in the all-too-familiar Western pattern (political correctness?) of China bashing.

I am surprised the blog owner has not read any of his articles thus far!

The comment above was posted by Mainlander at April 25, 2008 09:19 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

"Of course China scores badly on human rights. We all know that. China knows that. When China's human rights performance is compared with the West you see how far China has to go. But compare it with its recent past and you see how far China has come;


soo says Blackman. How far has it really come? Isnt this what the Tibetans and others are saying, exactly: it hasnt come forward at all - how does Blackman make such a hoodwinking generalization. Where are his proofs? There are none. Oh yeah he is balanced and nuanced but also for some reason quite blind. So lets all just go on letting China do what it wilt in regards its minorities and dissidents and keep up the fiction everything is OK - this way the nasty little nationalist youth wont be roused into negative action. So the world will overlook it all and say nothing and this will be better for China???? ..and it can keep its face....


"Partly, Western activists and governments want to punish China for the sins of its past such as the killings in and around Tiananmen Square in 1989. But it is arguable whether a Tiananmen-style crackdown is even possible today. It is certainly far less likely. One reason is because many of the problems that caused the student protests then have been fixed. Students chanted for democracy but few understood what that meant. What they really wanted was better student allowances and student accommodation. They have this now."

This is a petty undervaluing of the reasons the students died in Tiananmen square = really for better rooms. come now. and they were not so naive as to have bit of an idea of what democracy meant. any form of free speech was better than what they had and still have. Who is to say a Tiananmen event could not again happen? look at Lhasa


"If human rights are measured in terms of not just the absence of tyranny but also the absence of poverty, then China's leadership has done more for human rights for a greater number of people than anyone in history."

Tell the above to the dirt farmers of Xinjiang and Gansu; and elsewhere in rural China.


"The pragmatic approach would be to congratulate China on its spectacular progress and then point out ways for further progress."

This is the mantra used by western nations and corporations bent on making their money from the China trade. China should be congratulated but the nature of the CCP, would that change, even if ways of further progress included less abuse of Han and Minorities? Han cop it bad too when they go inside but come on Michael talk to Tibetans and others who've had the horse hair spliced down their pricks? so we read:


"Tibet is important but it should not be allowed to capture the human rights debate. For one, it is not obvious that human rights abuses are worse in Tibet than elsewhere in China. Is freedom of worship severely curtailed in Tibet? Not so, judging by the numbers of monks, and yet elsewhere in China, for example, Falun Gong has been all but wiped out. Human rights abuses are almost certainly worse among China's minority Uyghur population. Executions among the Uyghurs are believed to be higher than anywhere in China. But who cares? The Uyghurs are Muslims."

and so he moves his enlightening little narrative on and he leaves the Uyghur in their torment...and we are sposed to praise this balanced article, come on..read it for what it is...but then lets forget Tibet becoz others are copping it bad like the Falun Gong- hey whats the fuss about Tibet- then he moves on also leaving the Falun Gong to their miseries and imploring us to accept his balanced view of not agitating the unsophisticated bear. We didnt put China there - it nominated to be there itselrf...the bear baitin metaphor is clever and well chosen but not necessarily accurate of why and how this situation has arisen...dont Forget Tibetans rioted. western voices rose in support just as they did in 89 when the beast revelaed itself in Tiananmen. We did feel and still feel for those people Blackman..yu have overlooked empathy...and indignation as western motivations

and his article's conclusion: all those Tibetan agitators are just the offspring of the former aristocratic feudal ruling class, they know nothing of the real Tibet..oh yeah just like the lama I once met in Sera, southern Inda who on bearing his chest showed me the cicatrices from where hot wires were strung around him and pulled until he was exhausted near death and thrown on a pile of bodies outside his monastery and left for dead until found by a passing peasant and rescued...Mr Blackman's article is either Chinese propaganda or blinkered right wing white economo speak...many Tibetans in India have walked out of PRC Tibet at the peril of their lives. Blackman's article mocks their spirit and does no justice to their tenacity to stand at the point of death for something they believe in despite China's over sensitive face...

Human Rights are not an immediate issue. China has shown over the last few decades that it has not changed its stance. Will they change in time if encouraged? Blackman would have us believe and that on the heel of the recent riots!

Blackman in fact shows an incredible misunderstanding of the mentality and nature of the Chinese rulership. That is exactly what they want to hear.

It is the nature of the beast that is the problem.

"Can the leopard change his spots or the Ethiopian the colour of his skin?"

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 10:02 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

BTW from Backman's online CV: get his perspective straight its all about the $$$$$$$$$$$


"About Michael Backman
'A brilliant writer on regional business strategies.'
Rowan Callick, Australian Financial Review"


just brilliant bloody brilliant

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 10:17 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

BTW above first post should read Backman not Blackman. It was not an intentional mistake.

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 10:21 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@James

My arrogance and hubris will not allow me to engage in an argument with a Francophone armchair general who has very little understanding of how the real world operates.

Back to my freedom fries.

The comment above was posted by Cao Meng De at April 25, 2008 10:25 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@james

i guarantee, even if the ccp were to be replaced, westerners would still cry foul and hate china and find some other excuse to criticize china.

its not about which party is in power or about human rights abuses or free speech. its about power politics.

westerners hate china and criticize china because right now is stronger and more independent than she was at beginning of the last century.

the weak are ignored and exploited, while the strong and those who might challenge you are demonized.

i seriously doubt you really care about human rights and free speech.

The comment above was posted by jim at April 25, 2008 10:47 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Yes the real world is firstly all about the upholding of tyrannical political power; and secondly making a buck at any cost. Wasnt that the beauty of the Opium Wars?

Little people dont matter. But the real world is also about such little people overthrowing big dumb giants.

BTW the above post wasnt adressed to yu Cao and yu said previously yu were, to everyone's relief, gonna shut up and not respond to me and yu havent so please keep to yr word...

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 10:51 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ Jim

"its not about which party is in power or about human rights abuses or free speech. its about power politics.

westerners hate china and criticize china because right now is stronger and more independent than she was at beginning of the last century."

I challenge your notion that China is stronger and more independent than she was at the beginning of the last century. In fact I would say she is weaker, has learnt nothing and in fact is totally dependant on the West for her trade and so called economic miracle. I mean apart from her financing of the Iraq war by buying American bonds where is her income from. Selling cheap products to the West. Do yu think the west would buy them if they were not cheap?

Independent my foot.

and as far as human rights go Jimmy boy they obviously mean nothing to yu but a lot to me.

the west deals quite well with a democratic Taiwan - there is no real reason it wouldnt with a united democratic China. Its just guys like yu have a chip on yr shoulder about being Chinese and want top project yr stunted egos onto the world. This si also one of the roots of Chinese racism, which we all know outside the cabals of the enlightened few , is endemic in China,. and expressed outwardly to all. Starting with its own minorities. Ya?

One problem is if yu choose to point the other way is that China has never dropped its racist, xenophobic, outdated Maoist anti-western rhetoric. Its still got a chip on its shoulder from the Opium Wars and it basically has an inferiority complex it wants to take out on the world. This is often voiced by the fascists who get on here and vow vengeance on all and sundry who disagree with their views on China. who threaten to cut throats etc. when China takes control of the world...my, my, my.

and of course in your view its only about power politics. Human Rights abuses dont matter. well i hope one day yu may have the chance to end up in a lil torture room in the motherland someplace and lets see what ya opinions would be like then with the blood oozing out of ya...

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 11:04 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

And here is more of "bad China"!

It's time for "Shark awareness week"!

http://tinyurl.com/4zt6j4

The comment above was posted by nanheyangrouchuan at April 25, 2008 11:41 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Why is it that only Carrefour received protests when there are so many other French companies like Bausch & Lomb, Areva, Total, Renault and Suez?
Because those companies are associated with high technology, advanced manufacturing and modern management methods and so are necessary for China's development. So they stay protected, Carrefour is just a department store.


And here is more of "bad China"!

It's time for "Shark awareness week"!

The comment above was posted by nanheyangrouchuan at April 25, 2008 11:44 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@james

ok there righteous one who is the savior of the world. you care about human rights abuses huh?

Why not go tell exxon mobil to stop investing in Saudi arabia. why not tell america's allies (Japanese, south korea) to boycott saudi oil?

see you dont care about human rights, Saudi oil is too valuable to the powerful elite corporations who have great influence in american foreign policy.

btw, im not Chinese, im canadian.

and america deals with taiwan nicely not bc shes democratic, US supported taiwan during the days of the KMT when they were massacring civilians and abusing human rights, see kaoshiung incident.

and their rhetoric is xenophobic and racist bc the outside world has been hasrsh to china, and im not talking about the opium wars.

during the mao era, two of the largest empires in history were threatening China with nuclear holocaust, US, and USSR

America has 40k troops in south korea, 50k in japan, another several dozen thousand in guam. imagine you have about 150k hostile troops within a few hours flight from your borders, not to mention the seventh fleet.

the US tried (and is still trying) to contain china through sk, taiwan, and japan, and USSR did it through india, and to a lesser degree vietnam.

now considering all that, are you going give open arms to the outside world when they are threatening you like that?

you guys went ape shit when a few missile went to cuba, imagine you had china's geo-strategic reality, youd be infinitely more racist and xenophobic.

im not even going to address your claim that china is more weak now than in the early 20th century. that argument you gave alone speaks the depth of your ignorance.


The comment above was posted by jim at April 25, 2008 12:44 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ Jim: so?

ummm?

yu are Chinese/Canadian right?

In the last post I meant to say with blood oozing out of your anus but I thought Id spare u the shock of what cattle prods do when they are thus inserted. Sure yu dont want a lil trip back to the motherland?

And may I ask who are the violent reactionary protestors around the torch?James

This is from today's Australian:


Right to speak extinguished


COMMENT: Christian Kerr | April 25, 2008

AT times it looked like Lygon Street or Leichhardt on the night of a big game: young blokes driving up and down; flags sticking out of the windows.

But the context was wrong. This wasn't Melbourne or Sydney's inner city. It was the wide, formal avenues of the nation's capital.

The mood was different, too. It felt like one of those soccer games where 500 years of Balkan history is played out on the pitch.

The Olympic Torch Relay run through Canberra was supposed to be a celebration. Instead, it became a clash of cultures. Australia's lost. Yesterday, Beijing suppressed freedom of expression in the heart of our democracy.

Up to 10,000 Chinese students descended on Canberra in a show of national pride, but much of that pride was chauvinism. The T-shirts made this clear. Some simply said "Beijing 2008". Others read "One China". Some were explicit: "Tibet, Taiwan, Diaoyu Islands were, are and always will be part of China."

Banners bore a message, too. "Media: truth shall set you free," one warned. Before the torch had started running, pro-Tibetan protesters had been penned in by a ring of Chinese on Federation Mall, outside Parliament House.

It was a pattern repeated through the day and reflected in arrests. Five of the seven arrested, police media said, were Chinese.

Chinese flags were draped in front of signs and used to block off cameras. Tibet supporters were struck with flagpoles. There were racial taunts. The students looked well funded and well co-ordinated. "The way the world is ... we need events like this more than ever before," Robert de Castella said. "It's really important to continue to promote the ideals of events like the Olympic Games and the Olympic spirit."

But if anything ruled the day, it was a spirit of intimidation. Tiffany Mahon, from the Canberra suburb of Calwell, said she'd come to see the relay with her husband and mother because "we love the Olympics and we wanted to see Ian Thorpe".

But as she passed dozens of young Chinese people, encircling and shouting down a protester in Commonwealth Park, she said she was shaken by the aggression and lack of respect shown to people's right to free speech.

Ms Mahon said she had seen China supporters grab and throw away a flag from a Free Tibet protester and others surround and shout at a small band from Amnesty International, who were eventually extricated by police.

"It's pretty insulting that Australians in their own country need riot police to protect them from foreign nationals," one of the Amnesty group said.

Lars Hahn, from Canberra, attracted debate and abuse by wearing a "Free China" T-shirt and calling for Chinese people to be given a vote. "I like China but it would be a much better country as a democracy, not a dictatorship," he said.

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 12:56 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ Jim the Canadian

Afterthought:

re:


"now considering all that, are you going give open arms to the outside world when they are threatening you like that?"

Just like that boatload of weapons China just sent to Mugabe in Zimbabwe so as he can crush dissent? hmmm? Birds of a feather perhaps. Get your morality straight Jim: there aynt none from either side - that is my point. Im an anarchist yu twit. Give the voiceless a voice or hush up with ya big talkin high falutin power politics crap.

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 01:03 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

yeah, im a Chinese canadian, who ancestors came from scotland and have been here in Canada for generations, have red hair, and freckles. wow im really Chinese.

you can regurgitate any crappy article you found on the web, but that wont address the contradictions in your arguments.

hey at least the chinese protesters dont attack handicapped women.

China's government aint perfect and neither are its people. but you have to agree they get signaled out for things that happens all the time throughout the world.

and my argument is -- its bc of power politics. thats it, i dont love it, just speaking the facts as i see it. im a hardcore realists, and i know that human rights and free speech, they are a cover for other things, if they werent, people and govt would address human rights abuses everywhere equally, but thats doesnt happen.

its hard for westerners to accept this, i know, i used to be like you in my wide eyed college days.

you desired morals cloud your intelligence and judgement and thats dangerous because you end up demonizing a whole people and culture who dont deserve it.

it just kills you knowing that someone who isnt of chinese ancestry can be against you right? you just hate it !!! boils your blood that one of your own could be against your contradictory arguments.

The comment above was posted by jim at April 25, 2008 01:12 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Jim.


Oh I am so hasty. comes from having to save the world - so much to do...so little time


yes I understand yr point: China definitely had a lot aimed at them but to remain xenophobic and racist is that justified now (2008)?


YU are talking about the 1950s & 60's - a quarter of a century ago. But were they not racist and xenophobic before then?

Or are these unadmirable qualities to be blamed upon the effects of the oppressive west (in which yu live) upon the innocent Chinese of the Mao era?

Just wondering where your logic lay.

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 01:37 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Jim. Firstly I dont believe your cock and bull Scottish ancestry tale one bit. and to quote yu:

"and my argument is -- its bc of power politics. thats it, i dont love it, just speaking the facts as i see it. im a hardcore realists, and i know that human rights and free speech, they are a cover for other things, if they werent, people and govt would address human rights abuses everywhere equally, but thats doesnt happen."

If they werent a cover then the govs would adress these issues freely and yu are calling me an unrealist. I know yuv are a "hardcore realists"

but do Yu have a handle on politcal realities? Give us a break.

Sometimes good men and women do arise who change the world's course. This has been an historic struggle.

Following yr argument we just surrender to naked power, as people of no consequence, gutless and voiceless.

To yu there is no suffering coz yu have not suffered. As I said yu yrself speak up fr the voiceless or hush up...maybe go back to college and pick up where yu left off...demonstrate, get involved with Amnesty...tray and feeel...something

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 01:46 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

my facts lie in sound judgement and cold hard facts, while you seem to be getting your logic from some fairy tale utopia

you seem to overlook how much human rights abuses your own country has caused and seem to cherry pick human rights abuse cases and arms shipments. (btw you know the largest arms shipper to the african continent are europeans right? i.e. russia and france)

most chinese are xenophobic because they dont know much about the outside world. you dont think japanese are xenophobic and racist towards foreigners? frankly i think china and chinese people are much more tolerant of foreigners than say japan, korea, or vietnam, russia,

and the reason why they are still pissed at the west, even though the cold war is long over, is bc, america still tries to destabilize and contain china.

if america pulled all of its troops out of the western pacific, and stopped shipping guns to china's internal enemies, i guarantee, you would see a more responsible and tamed china.

but until that happens, you will see occasionally erratic and hostile, and tough handed behavior. this is a realists world, you gotta meet aggression with aggression,

if the americans are spending billions on the newest military hardware, invading countries, and selling guns to your enemies, you gotta play ball too.

bc if you dont, well the ccp will go down like the qing dynasty did.

anarchists huh? that explains a lot. hahaha.

The comment above was posted by jim at April 25, 2008 01:58 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

America... "shipping guns to china's internal enemies," really like who could this possibly mean?

Internal as within the country - yu are unclear!


Where and when are the Uyghur and Tibetans using guns against the Chinese? at the most we always hear of home made grenades and knives and swords and gunpowder...in the hands of those splittists...if they had guns things may be different. Thats why when yu hear of encounters it usually goes: "1 Chinese policemen dead, 17 splittist/ terrorists, scum of the nation, killed, etc." Im sure they all got guns from America. Or are yu referring to the old CIA drops to the Khampas in Tibet?

The CCP will go down like the Qing dynasty did no matter. The rot is already there. It will fall apart. The harder they try and hold on the more it will slip out of their grasp. Their own philosophies will catch them out; and it may happen in a way no one suspects.

BTW China has never officially renounced Maozedong thought and all that it entails in terms of western capitalist nations and running dogs. Yu should know that.

BTW

do yu know what an anarchist is/was?

I think not


If I was in Canadian security I would be giving some one like yu a thorough checking over. Yu seem quite like a violent anarchist type. with no loyalties to his country...if yu was in China with the same attitudes yu could be given the lil silva bullet...

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 02:22 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Jim

Afterthought:

"We who live in the present did not create the violence and hatred of the past. But the violence and hatred of the past, to some degree, created us. It formed the material world and the ideas with which we live, and will continue to do so unless we take active steps to unmake their cosequences."

~ Tessa Morris Suzuki, 2002.

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 02:34 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

i have been cruising around this blog and i have seen your name everywhere in the comment sections.

do you have a job or life? Or is demonizing china on blogs your hobby, life long mission to save the world?

you use trivial facts, and you come off as an angry wide eyed flamer.
maybe the chinese food delivery boy screwed up your order of low mein and this is your way of vengeance?

or maybe you were fired from your english teaching job in china, and need a way to vent anger.


The comment above was posted by jim at April 25, 2008 02:48 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Ah so. All true.

The comment above was posted by James at April 25, 2008 02:58 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

I dislike the argument "look how far China has come!" If a serial killer murdered fifty people last year, and only twenty this year, should he be congratulated?

"westerners hate china and criticize china because right now is stronger and more independent than she was at beginning of the last century."
Why, why do you listen to the goddamn Chinbese government? Why? You know it is a bloated, corrupt dictatorship. You know it has a death grip on the media. You know it is perfectly willing to massacre its own citizen. Why, goddamn it, why do you listen to it?

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 25, 2008 07:29 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Burma: a province of China?

Central Asia is next ...

=======================================


China's Tentacles Reach Deep into Burma
Tyler Chapman
2008-04-17

During a month-long trip to Burma, Tyler Chapman saw how China has extended its grip on Burma’s economy to the point where the Burmese people are fed up.

RFA/Tyler Chapman

A truck full of watermelons lumbers up the Burma Road toward its ultimate destination, China. Early 2008.

MANDALAY, BURMA—
The cloud of China hangs heavily over Burma.

No matter where I went on a recent visit to Burma, the Chinese shadow was apparent, from the steady stream of trucks headed for China, to shelves full of made-in-China goods, to Chinese-owned businesses, to the Chinese oil technician I met in Sittwe.

Most Burmese I talked with are angry about what they consider China’s domination of Burma and resentful of local Chinese who pervade the business community.

“We’ve become a province of China,’ a Burmese friend said. ‘They’re doing whatever they want here.’

The Burmese junta and Chinese government have had close ties since 1988 and share a no-nonsense approach to internal dissent. They used similar tactics recently to, as they put it, ‘crush’ monk-led protests in Burma and Tibet.

Old Burma Road packed with trucks

Not only is China providing the Burmese generals with military hardware and diplomatic support, it is fast on its way to becoming Burma’s leading trade partner.

The old Burma Road, built during World War Two from Rangoon to China, is packed these days with trucks taking Burmese agricultural products to China and bringing back everything from toothpaste to pots and pans to women’s lingerie.

‘We give them what we grow,’ a friend said. ‘They give us junk. You buy that stuff and in two or three months it’s broken.’

The imports from China have replaced western goods shut off from Burma by economic sanctions imposed after the government killed an estimated 3,000 pro-democracy demonstrators in 1990.

To accommodate the increased trade, China is financing improvements on the Burma Road to speed the flow. I saw new bypasses around Mandalay and sections being widened to four lanes.

And to quench it’s ever-increasing appetite for energy, China is developing oil and natural gas fields off Burma’s southwest coast and planning a pipeline all the way across Burma to Yunnan province in southwest China.

Nothing new

BurmaChinaLingerie250.jpg
A vendor in Bagan displays her inventory of lingerie made in China, early 2008. RFA/Tyler Chapman
At the airport in Sittwe, near the offshore fields, I struck up a conversation with a Chinese man who said he was a project manager for Petrochina, the Chinese oil company.
He said he had been trained in Houston, Texas, at Input/Output Inc. In fact, he said, Input/Output (now ION Geophysical Corp.) is helping Petrochina survey Burma’s offshore sites.

China’s exploitation of Burma’s natural resources is nothing new.
Satellite photos of Burmese forests on the China border show miles of clear-cut devastation where lush teak groves once grew. Millions of dollars worth of logs went to China, where environmentalists say they were labeled Indonesian teak to circumvent embargoes on the Burmese variety.

Smugglers thrive and corruption is rampant

‘It’s amazing what has happened up there,’ an environmentalist told me. ‘Those forests will never come back.’

Burma-China border towns have become free-trade zones where residents say smugglers thrive and corruption is rampant. Drugs, gems and other contraband cross the border either way, for a price.

Nowhere is the animosity toward the Chinese more evident than in Mandalay, where descendants of World War Two Chinese refugees and newly arrived immigrants dominate the business community.

Broad segments of the Burmese economy

I visited one of the three new malls built with Chinese money in Mandalay. Security guards at the door made it perfectly clear: no pictures inside. The upscale clothing and electronics shops were doing little business, their prices out of reach for ordinary Burmese.
Even though ethnic Chinese make up but three per cent of the population, they are said to control broad segments of the Burmese economy, with the connivance of the generals at the top.

‘They have the best cars, the best houses,’ a Burmese acquaintance told me. ‘They’ve sold out to the government and become rich. That’s all they want, to be rich.’

Even though China has paid lip service to the need for change in Burma, there is little incentive for Beijing to support a move toward democracy. It has too much to lose. A democratic government in Burma would welcome a renewal of western trade and investment.

‘Both governments want to keep things just as they are,’ a friend told me.

Tyler Chapman is a pseudonym to protect the author's sources.

The comment above was posted by Heverci at April 26, 2008 01:59 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

ok, a question for all your tibet and uighur lovers. would you accept tibet and xinjiang as an inalienable part of china, if it were controlled by a western style democratic government in beijing?

YOU STILL WOULDN'T

westerners still would support the separatists even if china created a government in beijing acceptable to westerners.

so there is no point in providing concessions, the more concession you give, the more they will demand

a policy of appeasement to the westerners and separatists will only lead to more land being stolen from china.

just like when the Qing dynasty gave up outter manchuria to the russians, and when the KMT gave up outter mongolia without a fight. and gave up manchuria to the japanese.

all of them were emboldened and attacked more when china gave up land.

if you let today's hostile entities take china's territory they will want more.
So China should never engage in a policy of appeasement towards western demands, never!

The comment above was posted by wonger at April 26, 2008 09:06 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

"then i ask you, did you like it when the british occupied your lands in america to help you reach your economic level."

Britain didn't "occupy" America. Britain colonized and gave birth to what is now called America ("America" pre British colonization was no resemblance to modern America). saying that Britain "occupied" America is a bit like saying China is now occupying Guangdong. It's silly. Further, the US is not occupying Japan or South Korea. The US has military bases there that exert no political influence. Japan and South Korea are functioning, stable democracies. They are highly influenced by the US, but that is simply because they are "allies".

As for being "poor and free", without the Us Japan and South Korea would have oodles of the former and none of the latter. You remember the Korean War? Where the US saved South Korea from total occupation from the North? Well, if the US hadn't intervened, South Korea would be enjoying the tender mercies of Kim Jong Il.

"if america pulled all of its troops out of the western pacific, and stopped shipping guns to china's internal enemies, i guarantee, you would see a more responsible and tamed china."

No you wouldn't. China would immediately occupy Taiwan and perhaps use military intervention in Indochina.

"As British Empire was still the top dog in 1908."

Not really. Industrially certainly the Us and probably Germany superseded it. Militarily Germany was superior (And the US had a much higher military potential). Britain was a great power because it had a very canny foreign policy.

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 26, 2008 09:41 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Backman's article the more one looks at it the more it stinks: the longer it lay around the more the flies are into it.

To point out that there are more executions among the Uyghur than anywhere else in China, the country in the world that executes the most people per annum and to just leave that as a way of saying the Tibet issue isnt that important or precious because of this then to leave the Uyghur issue as if that execution rate is not symptomatic of a serious problem concernbing Human Rights abuse in Xinjiang itself, to move on to the persecution of the Falun Gong and say hey people are persecuted all over China so lets not make Tibet such an issue; so as we dont make China lose face is kowtowing arse kissing tripe. The article basically is a smokescreen to take the reading public's attention from Tibet. It is sophistry at its best/worst.


I previously posted Backman's (or was that Cashman's?) "brilliant" motivation is all about economics. The present suffering of the persecuted in China means nothing what is important is placating the now enraged bear.

As Tiako pointed out his simplistic definitions of the West are almost Huntingtonesque. The IOC put China in and not the West - there is no "West". China proffered itself for the games as it knows the political clout hosting the games putatively brings to it...it is failing ...however.

Simplistic, stereotype based pseudo analysis such as Backman's feed the ignorant. Fools on this blog applauded it...my ...my...for its balance. There is no balance only a whitewash of real issues. Any way Backman back home at London in his art gallery a la Asie can no doubt live the high life to the ululation of his dumbfounded parvenu devotees...until his next brilliant installment of how to make bucks off the Chinese appears...

The comment above was posted by James at April 26, 2008 11:54 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Wonger. I think many westerners would be quite happy with that arrangement if that really matters. Yu shouldnt like Backman homogenize the West as one. But what really matters is whether Uygurs and Tibetans are happy with it. When is the great Chinese referendum among its nationalities without threat or fear of Mugabesque intimidation gonna happen in the great democratic motherland? Then yu can perhaps ask yr question. Really it doesnt matter what your "westerners" think. Do yu think a fair democratic government can rule in China free of chauvinism towards its minorities?

The comment above was posted by James at April 26, 2008 12:00 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

and so much for China's face ~ China backs down coz it knows its losing more than its face. Backman again misinterprets the power of conscience:


Rudd 'should mediate Dalai Lama talks'

The Australian April 26, 2008

GREENS leader Bob Brown says reports that Chinese officials will meet with a representative of the Dalai Lama is a victory for protesters who dogged the Olympic torch relay.

The state-run Xinhua news agency reported today that officials would meet soon with a representative of the Tibetan spiritual leader.

China has come under intense foreign pressure to hold talks with the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader since rioting erupted in the Tibetan capital Lhasa last month and spread to other areas populated by Tibetans.

The protests have since focused on the Olympic torch relay, which has been held in international locations in recent weeks, including in Canberra on Thursday.

"This is a great step forward for the people of Tibet and a real victory for the peaceful pro-Tibet protesters around the world,'' Senator Brown said.

"The Greens suggest that Prime Minister Kevin Rudd might use his good offices to assist the talks between the Dalai Lama and Beijing.''

The comment above was posted by James at April 26, 2008 12:29 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Do not get too excited. If CCP gives in to Daliar Lama after the riot and the antics of torch snatching, something will have to be changed about CCP.

The comment above was posted by funny at April 26, 2008 01:47 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@funny

Dont yu think thats possibel?

Or is this a face saving trick so things dont get right out of hand before the Olympics?


Either way they (CCP) gave given ground.

Maybe a quick reading of Sun Zuu or maybe a revelation of common sense has come upon them, we'll see.

The negotiations wil be interesting.


If you were the DL would you go to China?

The comment above was posted by James at April 26, 2008 02:29 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Interesting article. The Olympic Games will be a marvel no doubt and Beijing will transform into a truly dynamic place: East meets west in its most grandiose panache since the establishment of Sino-West relations. The Western media and interest groups will continue to project China’s human rights shortcomings, and the Chinese media will continue to present favourable minority news.

While I acknowledge that the western media does have some flaws and biased when reporting about Human Rights in China, sadly, there is just too much State control to take Chinese media seriously when controversial politics are discussed. Madam Fu-Ying said that the Western media must still earn the respect of the China people, but many in the West feel Chinese media is still grossly subjective and only prints fair-weathered artiles when the CCP is concerned.

Michael Backman is ambitious and will do and say anything to get frontpage coverage. Like many Chinese and those media who assert human rights abuses in Tibet, Backman has never been to Tibet. Ask him face to face what he knows about human rights, china and indeed the Tibet issue and he would disappoint in the same way many Chinese feel those westerners who report without knowledge of China would.

But I do love all the cultural revolution rhetoric that has been dusted off and found new life with a new generation of ultra-nationalists. "Running Dog", being my favorite slanderous term.

Also loved this comeback:
"better to be a running dog with eyes wide open than a blind sheep with eyes wired shut!"

The comment above was posted by Jimba at April 26, 2008 04:11 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

radix malorum est cupiditas

The comment above was posted by James at April 26, 2008 05:21 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@james

Nothing will come out of "the negotiations" because DL demands the impossible: at least 1/4 of China, all non-tibetans out and all military out. He really wants to turn back the clock of ages, not just autonomy.

He wants so called "greater Tibet" which could be the territory of "Tibetan Empire" at its prime that was about 13 hundreds years ago. If Native Americans demand the same, people of 300 millions will have to leave, wouldn't you say that will not happen?

I don't know how DL will deal with people who are not "100 %" of Tibetans. "Miscegenation" is part of the fear of "Cultural genocide". "Miscegenation" is still used by "white power" to describes interracial relations, but even white supremists will not use the word for French-Briton couples. DL is a racist and it baffles me why he has such appeal to western liberals.

The comment above was posted by funny at April 26, 2008 09:58 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

funny,
That is simply not true. The Dalai Lama has said numerous times that he doesn't want independence from China, because he doesn't think that will benefit Tibet. he simply wants the PRC to honor their agreement to a degree of regional autonomy.

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 27, 2008 01:28 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ funny

the comparison of Tibetans with native americans is anachronistic. We are looking at a genocidal frontier NOW in operation in Tibet and Xinjiang- not 200 years ago. China is gobbling up Tibetan land now- its not too late. If it is 1/4 of China that belongs to Tibet- then China stole it in the last 50 years. History is not a closed book here. The in migration of Han has not yet been complete so as they can commit the same cultural genocide whites did in America 200 years ago - the Tibetans are not on reservations yet...but they will be if the Han have their way. Stop this American Indian comparison. Wait til the Uyghur and other Turkic groups get their homeland. Then China will be what it really is if the Han want to culturally dominate - what it was in the Ming, stripped of its colonies. Dont say it cant happen coz it can...

if China isnt willing to openly and honestly negotiate then they are up to subterfuge and deception...they will be caught out ...as the hands of fate and destiny are now turning against the CCP -the more they hang on now the more they will lose power. the more force they use the weaker they become. They MUST grant Autonomy or lose the empire.

The comment above was posted by James at April 27, 2008 08:44 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ funny

and who says that Han cant live in an autonomous Tibet or Xinjiang? Have the rightful occupants of those lands ever been consulted about how many of the former colonizing race they would allow to live in their autonomous Regions? You maybe surprized. Dont forget that elder brother Mao initially recognized the former colonizers: the KMT, as imperialists and fascist chauvinists, as exploiters of the nationalities.

The Han would be needed. Unchecked in-migration and planned assimilation policies would be scrapped. Chinese would still be taught in schools just as English is in China - as an important second language. But so would Russian and Hindi and Nepali and Urdu and Dari and Mongolian.

The real issue would be they decide for themselves what goes down. China looks after foreign policy. Mao deceived the nationalities way back and everyone knows that. Maybe a true, strong China would grant the autonomy to these people that was originally promised by the CCP - lets see if they can live up to their own pronounced virtues. Then the world may start thinking of them as great as different to the regimes and dynasties of the past their ideology so criticizes and uses as a justification for their own legitimacy of rule. Where is the difference? The clock is ticking...

The comment above was posted by James at April 27, 2008 10:09 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ Funny

Speaking of inter-racial relations, does it not worry you that the racial nationalism currently going on in China is comparable to that of Japan before it took on the world - read Yamato Race. The DL, as has been stated above, only asks for greater "autonomy" for the people of Tibet. Your assertions worry me and prove how misinformed even educated Chinese people are. Does it also seem a little unfair that these Autonomous regions, XUAR included, actually have less freedoms than the greater China... please ask me for examples, I have many many... :)

The comment above was posted by Jimba at April 27, 2008 10:45 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ those who dont understand what DL's "autonomy" really means

the DL speaks of autonomy, but it isnt autonomy. its what i call the waiting game. DL knows that china is too strong right now, and that currently, because of its importance in the global economy, the DL cant convince his overlords (US, Europeans) to support tibetan independence.

so the DL will play the waiting game, pretend you dont want independence, but lay the framework, foundation, and institutions and call it "meaningful autonomy" so that, when should it happen, the Beijing government becomes weak, you will declare independence.

its similar to when France gave up Alsace-Lorraine to the germans in 1871. obviously tibet isnt france, and china isnt germany, but its the same idea. when your nemesis is too strong, you give into demands and wait, but keep your ultimate goal in the background at all times, and when the right time arrives, you implement your ultimate goal.

maybe a better analogy is to compare the DL and his group with some elements in the the palestinian resistance. some Palestinians are willing to accept Israel's existence bc she is too strong right now. but the moment the palestinians are powerful enough, they will try to achieve their ultimate goal, which is the end of israel's government. DL and his group are doing the same thing.

off on a tangent, the DL is more like Yasser Arafat than he is like Gandhi. like Yasser Arafat, the DL only cares about his own political power, returning to power, and his own political legacy, (DL like arafat, wants to be remembered in history as taking on a such larger adversary and winning.) DL cares more about the former than he does about the plight of the tibetan people.

the DL claims he isnt responsible for inciting violence in tibet and sabotaging the olympics and that he condemns violence.
just like when arafat said he condemns suicide bombers.

trust me, the DL reads more intelligence reports and newspapers than he does buddhist scriptures.

i know all of you are going to howl about how these arent related, trust me it sounds better than when you guys try to compare china with nazi germany.

we have to remember, the DL is a political actor, imagine he wore a suit, or a military outfit, instead of hiding behind a robe, than most of you would see him for who he really is. he hides behind a robe, bc he knows hollywood and a bunch of tree hugging liberals will say, ahhh poor monk.

The comment above was posted by Jim at April 27, 2008 11:32 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Jim or is it Cao?

"trust me, the DL reads more intelligence reports and newspapers than he does buddhist scriptures."

trust yu? How do yu know this?

DL more like Arafat. Oh yeah. we trust yu. YES there yu are really off on a tangent (unlike the tree huggers concerned about human rights) but we trust yu.

Tibet is Tibet. Tibet's situation is unique. It is not Palestine or any where else. These allusions are an effort to really distort the situation. Autonomy is coming and Han fascists dont like the idea it would seem Jim.

BTW it is His Holiness the DALAI Lama not DL. ok cmd.

The comment above was posted by James at April 27, 2008 01:56 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

BTW 'meaningful autonomy' of course would be much better than the ersatz autonomy Tibet and Xinjiang have had to live under the last 50 years

while having no say in the running of their autonomous region, their mineral riches plundered, their lands taken, their culture infected with atheistic materialism and their populations watered down in the name of the Han 'nation' wouldnt yu say?

Comparing China to nazi Germanay may be wrong as yu say "Jim" but the traits of fascism are very evident within China's ultranationalism, this wil be a warning to the free world from the Olympic torchj protest reaction. This attitude is always just below the surface and has many mouth pieces. Even in Canada it would seem from latest blog site post (mutant palm). The torch protests cannot be blamed for inciting this attitude. It is already there waiting, unfulfilled it would seem.

The comment above was posted by James at April 27, 2008 02:04 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

his name is Tenzin Gyasto, he's just a man, not some mythical figure than western propaganda (CNN, Hollywood) makes him out to be.

ok Tibet is tibet, than China is China. every situation is different.

than people should stop trying to compare china with other countries like nazi germany, fascists japan.

funny how, when i argue like you, you go ape shit.

have you ever been to tibet or is your only source the movie seven years in tibet?

you love Tenzin bc you hate china, chinese people, and chinese culture. your a sino-phobic racist.

The comment above was posted by jim at April 27, 2008 02:24 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Darling I pointed out before you went monkey pooing all over the nice clean page that it is perhaps wrong to compare China and Nazi Germany but not wrong to point out that fascist stirrings are very similar in many places and they arise for the same reasons. So settle down xiao han.

The Dalai Lama is a man of course but Tibetans also believe he is a god incarnate and that you have absolutely no respect for their beliefs or sentiments is bloody painfully obvious.

Unlike yourself I have been to Tibet many times and yes Greater Tibet all through the wonderful Golok areas of what yu call Qinghai and Ngaba in what you call Sichuan. let alone the areas of greater Tibet in Yun nan and Gansu. Maybe you should go there too. I liked Lhasa best in mid 1980s before all the Han got there and long before the railway line brought modernity and lots of goods from sweatshops on the coast. You should try Bhutan too and Ladakh to give you an idea of how vast the Tibeatn culture area is. But to speak of greater Tibet is often just that - it denotes the Tibetan culture area rather than a political delineation: but of course Qinghai was Amdo province of old Tibet as western Sichuan was Kham and this wasnt very long go. These areas were borderlands never clearly defined until the Communist did their divide and conquer imperialist demarcations up in the high areas where a Han rarely went in days gone by (ca. 1959). So Jim to be polite, go stick ya smarmy lil racist fascist head up some dead monkey's arse.


The comment above was posted by James at April 27, 2008 03:34 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ Jim, DL's version of Autonomy is the same as the international communities. The only varying version being the Soviet model China has morphed so that real autonomy "understood to refer to independence of action on the internal or domestic level" is not possible for Tibetans; or "control over their own affairs", hardly.

But whatever is said or is done by the DL it won't make a lick of difference because you've already been convinced, like most other PRC's good citizens, that he is the antichrist and I bet you even if he turned water into wine the CCP would probably accuse him of "turning water into the blood of Han everywhere.." or something just as colluded.

Reading your factless comments was, in the words of Peter Fleming, that 'to read a propogandist, a man with vested intellectual interests, is dull as dining with a vegetarian'. - props to C. Tyler

The comment above was posted by Jimba at April 27, 2008 05:04 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Jim, why do you consider the Chinese government to be a good information source?

"you love Tenzin bc you hate china, chinese people, and chinese culture. your a sino-phobic racist."

So, because he admires the Dahlia Lama, he is a racist. I really hope you are joking.

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 27, 2008 07:45 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

All these anti-China morons,

Here I have to show my sincere appreciation to unite the Chinese in China and disaporic Chinese communities together!
Next step, we will conduct cultural genocide to Tibetans, as Dalai Lama suggested.

Thanks!

The comment above was posted by lydia at April 27, 2008 11:30 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

James,

I have copied all your pictures and will post them on Tianya.cn. I will call for a nationwide campaign in China to catch you son of bit'ch as a splitist criminal.

Thank you for telling me you are in Beijing.

The comment above was posted by Lydia at April 27, 2008 11:33 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@James,

Stop to misinform people who doesn't know Tibet.

There are nothing called Provinces in Tibet. Amdo or Kham were NEVER being under Lhasa control after Lan Darma was killed by Lamas. That is VERY LONG ago.

If you don't like Chinese sources about how Kangxi defines borders between his provinces, or how Zhao Erfeng, or province of XiKang, you can check Mr. Shakaya's book on that.

I know you guys love to repeat untrue information to make it sounds like a truth (for example, about 1.2M Tibetans being killed after 1950), but in today's information age, you can no longer to do that.

The comment above was posted by Sha at April 27, 2008 11:37 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

I can only add my voice to the high number of the voices which already congratulated you for the great work in informing the world about Xianjing and Tibet. Many thanks, I'll keep reading and visiting you regularly.

The comment above was posted by Marian C hilea at April 28, 2008 12:01 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Lydia,
That's right! Kill the bastard who dares call Chinese intolerant!

Incidentally, are Chinese people simply unable to comprehend the idea of a loyal opposition?

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 28, 2008 04:02 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Sha,
The figure of exactly how many Tibetans were killed in the Chinese takeover is ambiguous. It probably wasn't as high as 1.2 million, but it also wasn't zero, and one Tibetan murdered is one Tibetan too many. It just so happens that it was a great deal more than one. The Chinese government gives it as 87,000, and it is safe to say that the Chinese government didn't take the high estimate.

So, we are looking at something likely over 100,000 dead due to Chinese actions. Add to that what can accurately be described as "cultural genocide" (93% of monks forced out an all but 70 of the 2500 monasteries were left by 1962) and perhaps we can see why people might criticize Chinese policy in Tibet.

And for once, let's not have any Chinese government bullshit, OK?

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 28, 2008 04:11 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Sorry. When I said "all but 70 of the 2500 monasteries were left by 1962" I meant "only 70 of the 2500 monasteries were left by 1962".

Ugh. Triple post. Sorry.

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 28, 2008 04:13 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@sha

"If you don't like Chinese sources about how Kangxi defines borders between his provinces..."

sorry Sha Kangxi was a Manchurian emperor ruling the Han when China was part of Manchuria.

@ Lydia

please drop around to my Beijing hutong antytime for sex that is appropraite for yu, any way, any how. bring your friends but they must leave their weapons with my body guards at the moon gate. Love James.

The comment above was posted by James at April 28, 2008 06:17 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Tiako,

Do you remember there was a rebellion in 1956, right? There was also one in 1959, and CIA-backed insurgents until 1975?

When you engage in a war, do you expect no lose of life?

So you just expect that one rebels started to kill Party's members (both Han and Tibetan) of non-armed working group, then that is OK since they are Commies. But if they were fighting back, that is murder.

Sounds familiar? Well, read all Western reports about March 14 in Lhasa, people will see the difference.

@James,

Sorry, Kanxi is a Chinese Emperor who is ethnic (actually half since his mother was Han) Manchu. He didn't rule over Han for his Empire. He ruled over Han, Manchu, Mongol, Tibetan, Uyghur, etc. you name it. And his Empire is NOT Manchuria. The Manchuria is a region that consists whatever in Russian Far East and Chinese Northeast today.

Learn some history before open you mouth and spit out lie.

For other people who don't know--Ming Dynasty founder Zu Yuanzheng was mixed with Hui blood. His son Zu Di was either by a Mongol princess or a Korean princess. As many know all Yuan Dynasty emperors were ethnic Mongols. Song Dynasty Zhao family with Caucasian bloods. Before that you have Shatou family for Later Tang who were Nordics. Tang Dynasty was from Li family who was Sino-Turko. Then Wei Dynasty with Tubagacha. Etc.

Since the term of China and Chinese being used--start from Chin Dynasty (Qin), there were, are and will be always a multi-ethnic country.

The comment above was posted by Sha at April 28, 2008 06:54 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Lydia said: "All these anti-China morons".

You're right, the Chinese blowhorn media are right, there is nothing wrong in Tibet, everyone is happy because they are told to be and truth is what the CCP say it is.

Wicked. Then we have nothing to worry about. The Olympic Games will rock!!!

Moron.

The comment above was posted by Jimba at April 28, 2008 07:51 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ Sha

so what is a Han?

and if they are so mixed why do they persecute others?

Qing was a Manchurian dynasty- not Han- even if Kangxi was half chinese he ruled as a Manchurian who had taken the throne of China- China belonged to Manchuria. Peking was always a Mongol city-built by Mongols who are related to the Manchu - argue against that. They took what Chinese administrative practices suited them and implemented them to rule over the Han.

Yuan was a mongol dynasty when China (the han areas)belonged to Mongolia.

Get your han-centric perceptions out of the way and then yu will see history and its unfolding pattern clearly.

the CCP is the first Han dynasty since the Han dynasty really.

that China has always been an multi ethnic country is not the point:

the point is China has never really existed as CHINA during all of those periods of mixed blood rulership yu mention - apart from the Ming restoration anti Yuan reaction; maybe the Song neo-Confucian period also but Ill take yoiur word the Song emperors wertent Chinese (Han) either.

yu stab your own argument in the foot here sha.

was the Jin a Chinese dynasty

the Wei?

no?

the historians just wrote it that way later

get it right before accusing others of getting it wrong; but thanks for the time and input. I mean that.

If yu are a friend of Lydia could yu please tell her that after she comes around to my place for our little session we could post the fotos on Tianya.cn for all to see - that'd be a good post hey Sha?

The comment above was posted by James at April 28, 2008 08:25 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@james

haha, you are probably one of these, back home losers, who come to china because he get any action back in his home country.
most westerners who come to china are good, except a few like James who are perverted and racists.

you give westerners a bad image.

The comment above was posted by pollack at April 28, 2008 09:24 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Nothing wrong with being perverted.. it happen's when you spend too long in China, hanging out with sexually supressed people like pollack. What I want to know is how on earth was it deduced that James is a racist?

The comment above was posted by jimba at April 28, 2008 09:34 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

screw all the han chauvinists in this blog. I am racists, so what??

White Power!! Sig Heil!!!

The comment above was posted by James at April 28, 2008 10:01 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@James,

Don't try to move the goal post. Nobody said that Kangxi is a Han Emperor. Your original argument is that Kangxi is NOT a Chinese Emperor so whatever he did have nothing to do with China. You think that if you can threw few twisted terms around than most of people will get fool by you?

The comment above was posted by sha at April 28, 2008 10:09 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@whoever posted
two posts above

this in my name

"screw all the han chauvinists in this blog. I am racists, so what??

White Power!! Sig Heil!!! "

signing James

It was not I

as the blogmaster could verify

Id say it was possibly Cao or a Cao type

Speak about the idea of Autonomy for the minorities and see what yu get.

Anyway Lydia I AM WAITING FOR YU. make it early in the evening if you could. Loves James


The comment above was posted by James at April 28, 2008 10:57 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@sha

Han = Chinese

teh rest are Tibetansd

or Uyghurs

or Yao

or Kazakh

or Tu

or Dongxiang

or

Ba'aon

or

.....

The comment above was posted by James at April 28, 2008 10:58 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

more @ Sha

"You think that if you can threw few twisted terms around than most of people will get fool by you?"

this is exactly what the CCP has been doing for 50 years

with people like yu.

So yes the answer is YES.

They are all coming out of the woodwork now. Im goingback to the hutong for soem ahh...refreshments...

The comment above was posted by James at April 28, 2008 11:00 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Sha

Lets just say despite his mixed parentage KANGXI was a Manchurian who ruled the Chinese people like all of the Qing emperors. They were not Han. They united your CHINA for yu and China ended up with Manchuria. No they werent Chinese emperors coz China as yu know it today didnt exist then. Its that simple.

Yu can Thank Qianlong for Mongolia, Tibet , Turkestan and other areas.

Thus modern China was created by Manchus not Chinese (Han).

The comment above was posted by James at April 28, 2008 11:23 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Sha

i take back what i said, actually the Chinese state as we know it, was created back in 221 BC, by the QIn, since then the chinese state has been like an accordion,

Mongolia, tibet, and turkestan was added to the Chinese state, by both the tang, and yuan dynasty's later on. sorry for my mistake.

The comment above was posted by James at April 28, 2008 12:14 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

lydia, i would be weary of James, he sounds like a rapists. to everyone, keep an eye on your drinks if you are near this scumbag.

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 28, 2008 12:33 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@lydia:

"I have copied all your pictures and will post them on Tianya.cn. I will call for a nationwide campaign in China to catch you son of bit'ch as a splitist criminal.

Thank you for telling me you are in Beijing."

It will be nice to figure out what James is doing in Bejing. Why is someone who hates 90%+ of the population in China living in the capital?
Isn't that a grave security issue?

If Chinese emperors could take wives of different ethnities, Why, in 21th century, some foreigners are trying so hard to draw clear lines and incite ethnic hatred between different ethnicities in China, while Obama is running for president in USA? It does make you wonder what is the motive.

@james

Han Chinese speak at least 7 dialects and the written language, Chinese, is what has been connecting them. Any culture without a long history of literatures can hardly be called a civilisition. Whatever the ethnicity ruled whatever the dynasty in China, most majority of literatures and official documents were written in Chinese.

It is bullshit to say that the concept of China was made up by CCP. Chinese outside China were called Chinamen in West in Qing dynasty.

As far as I know, during Qing dynasty, Han Chinese didn't start to talk in Manchu tongue and write in Manchu and it was the other way around. After a few generations, Mandarin was the language of communication in Qing court. I doubt the last emperor could speak any Manchu. That was how they could have ruled China for hundreds of years.

CCP has very liberal and progressive policies toward minorities. It was quite a shock to me when I realized that Afican Americans would be arrested if they didn't give their seats to whites in 60's. In China, some Chinese try to dig out whatever minority blood in them, if nothing, they try to convert to musilim. Why is that if minorities are bullied by Han?

"Peking was always a Mongol city-built by Mongols who are related to the Manchu - argue against that". James, you have funny opinion about history. Genghis Khan was as famous or notorious as he was, his people were normadic and illiteral. I doubt that Peking was realy built by Mongols unless you can come up with something solid. BTW, Urghurs should stop wining. They(Turk) were upper class under mongol rule. Mongols brought millions of central Asians into China and why is it so terrible that population flow the other way now?


The comment above was posted by funny at April 28, 2008 12:37 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ funny

"it was quite a shock to me when I realized that Afican Americans would be arrested if they didn't give their seats to whites in 60's."

the reason why that happened bc i believe blacks are sub human.

and the reason why the dig up ethnic minority status is so they can more get more benefits, just like how many americans try to dig up native american ancestry to get more benefits.

The comment above was posted by James at April 28, 2008 01:22 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@james re this post above

"it was quite a shock to me when I realized that Afican Americans would be arrested if they didn't give their seats to whites in 60's.

the reason why that happened bc i believe blacks are sub human.

and the reason why the dig up ethnic minority status is so they can more get more benefits, just like how many americans try to dig up native american ancestry to get more benefits."

as i said elsewhere above this is how scampered certain han people are by these posts.They are accusing me of racism...can ya believe it?

I have nothing to do with the above although they are now signing themselves as James. Yes I am the one they are looking for in Beijing who supposedly hates 95% of the Chinese race or something Im the one who wants to have sex with Lydia in my hutong and post the pics on Tianya.cn ...I am not responsible for the above posts re African americans and american indians as you all are probabaly aware...but it is interesting that some one is doing this...maybe the web police; can yu believe that...anyway as long as the webmeister doesnt mind let the discussion continue and lets see what other murderous threats, hate campaigns and slights are launched against me as I secretly skulk around the streets of old Beijing...plotting... plotting.........hahahahahahaha!@!!!...

HGow many Han fascist do we find on blogs condemning the west from within western countries while enjoying all the benefits of those countries?

all I do is suggest autonomy for Tibet and that I want to poke Lydia who says shes gonna get me on Tianya and all bloody hell breaks lose; pseudo James' appear who hate Afican americans - god pseudo James my girlfriend is African for cryin out loud...and she dont care if I give it to Lydia either.. or Pollack for that matter - ooooh Pollack--love the name sweety. Anyway stay tuned to Tianya.cn for the pics...luv ya alll. the real James.

p.s. Lydia if yu are there could yu please contact me, its getting hard... without yu...around

The comment above was posted by James the original at April 28, 2008 02:52 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Heres another one by the "pseudo James" after I posted that China could thank Qianlong for Tibet, Turkestan and Mongolia. What do yu think is going on here:: great isnt it::


"@Sha

i take back what i said, actually the Chinese state as we know it, was created back in 221 BC, by the QIn, since then the chinese state has been like an accordion,

Mongolia, tibet, and turkestan was added to the Chinese state, by both the tang, and yuan dynasty's later on. sorry for my mistake."

Actually in reagrd this pseudo post in my name: the Tang were whooped in Central Asia in 751 by the Arabs - well the Tang Turkic army was whooped by an Arab army consisting of mainly Turkic mercenaries.The 4 garrisohns (yes only 4 garrisons) collapsed as a political unit in the Tarim basin and Tang fled back into real China where the Han were (ruled by Turks and Sogdians) and they stayed there until 1759 when the Manchu Qing army annexed Turkestan ( with mainly non-Han troops of Tungusic origin strongly related to Turkic and Mongol peoples such as the Xibe and teh Daur who are still in Xinjiang along teh borders))- yes thank yu Qian long. Im not anti-Han Im just opposed to Han natioanlist historiography and all of its make believe. I like Lydia... anyway..shes Han...

The comment above was posted by James the hutong king at April 28, 2008 03:07 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

more on the pseudo james statement:

"actually the Chinese state as we know it, was created back in 221 BC, by the QIn, since then the chinese state has been like an accordion, .."


Love the "accordion" meatphor eh.? and contracting. But the original state of Qin - was quite small- Yellow river valley area near Ordos. the original Chinese state then did not extend beyond those borders. and often contracted to near those early borders when they were whooped in Central Asia after failed Imperilistic endeavours - that is the lesson of History - the Han have always been defeated in Central Asia after expansion and then retreated back to their original state and proper ethnic milieu. But according to the rasoning of the pseudo JAMES all those areas it expands into remain hers
- HOW ABOUT VETNAM THEN? Didnt yu guys get whooped down there to for the same arrogance. then had to retreat after expanding. Still claim Vietnam. Howe about the areas of Kirghizstan and Kazakhstanb that briefly came under 4 garrison rule in Tang? Still China pseudo James? Yu are out of yr depth peg head?

The comment above was posted by James the Beijing stalker at April 28, 2008 03:24 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@funny re:

"James, you have funny opinion about history. Genghis Khan was as famous or notorious as he was, his people were normadic and illiteral. I doubt that Peking was realy built by Mongols unless you can come up with something solid. BTW, Urghurs should stop wining. They(Turk) were upper class under mongol rule. Mongols brought millions of central Asians into China and why is it so terrible that population flow the other way now?"

Funny, speaking of illiteracy its "illiterate" not "illiteral" dunce.

nomadic not "normadic"

Its Uyghurs not "Urghurs"

Maybe Genghis Khan could have taught you soemthing about literacy. If you must bastardize language bastardize your own...

AND Who built Peking?

Kubilai built it upon the foundations of earlier Turco-Mongol rulers on the same spot - dunce.

yure a dunce in history and dunce in literacy

go back to school.

and dont yu just love this reasoning and justification for Han population invasion of Tibet and Xinjaing and poor Inner Mongolia:

"... Mongols brought millions of central Asians into China and why is it so terrible that population flow the other way now..."

I might have afunny opinion anbout history funny. but its not as funny as yours.;.hahahahahahahaha!

The comment above was posted by James the shadow of Tiananmen at April 28, 2008 03:45 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Methinks this once untampered and informative blog is now under the watchful gaze of China's netizen police.

God help us if this is China's behaviour if or when they become a world power...

The comment above was posted by Jimba at April 28, 2008 04:38 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

omg, this is too funny. you morons and your comments just made the round in my office, and we were cracking up all day. wow james so defensive, and jimba, self infatuated paranoia.

what arrogance, you guys think some intelligence agency or police are looking at you or this stupid blog. omg, too funny

i knew this would incite some defensive black lashes, but to think the police are watching you or this blog, omg give me a break.

dont give yourselves too much credit. what, you guys think you are some front line freedom fighters on the net? haha, morons

i bet for a few hours there you felt pretty brave and righteous, to attract the police huh? ohhhhh. hahaha. keep it up.

anyways, thanks for the laughs. sig hiel James! haha

The comment above was posted by hahaha at April 28, 2008 05:27 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Where's Lydia guys?

Yu guys bangin her out the back of the secret plice station?

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Bring her round the hutong. Not fair yu jerks get all the fun and privilege juSt fr spyin on poor paranoid Jimba and the truly deluded true James

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

The comment above was posted by James the Sick man of Asia at April 28, 2008 05:53 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

hahah, btw if you havent guessed, it was me posing as you, pseudo james as you call me, wasnt hard, just had to attack really dumb, worked well huh? hahaha


The comment above was posted by hahaha at April 28, 2008 07:52 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@funny

You are correct. Dadu, the capital that Kubilai built was burned by Ming army. Current city of Beijing is build upon Ming foundation. Just ignore that guy who pretends that he knows Chinese history just because he read couple of books.

The comment above was posted by Cao Meng De at April 28, 2008 08:54 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@james whatever or whatever james

You can pick on my English all you want if that can make you feel better. Urghur and Uyghur were both used in literatures and interestingly neither shows up in my "Webster's New World College Dictionay(Fourth edition)", hope that will not dim your glee.

You give too much credit to single individual in history, did he really design or build anything? As brilliant as Genghis Khan, there are not much left to show for modern Mongols. Why is that?

It is FUNNY to use ethnicity of Last Chinese Emperor or the map of Han dynasty(over two thousands years old) to argue where modern Han Chinese should live. It is meaningless in reality to relocate population according to where the Romans live or who ancient Britons were.

I just tried to use history to show that no such "evil Han" genocided other people and people fought a lot just like everywhere else on earth. "Culture genocide" has been going on there for thousands of years, like it any or not.

BTW, Han was defintely involved in getting new territory in Qing and whatever ethinicity ruled after Qing would definitely try to hold on the territory anyway.

The comment above was posted by funny at April 28, 2008 09:02 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Whatever reading this blog:

Why Westerners tried to do very hard to make Chinese a narrow description of Han?

Because in this way, they can call Qing Dynasty is NOT a Chinese Empire even though since way back, all Western government documents and whatever newspapers already called Qing Dynasty Chinese whatever.

So why the change? Well, if you deny that Qing Dynasty as Chinese, then you can deny the legal base that both ROC and PRC inheriting the lands from Qing Court (minus whatever pieces already cut by foreign powers). In this case, that Taiwan, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, and Xinjiang will become NOT China. That is a good legal argument for Western countries formal policies regarding China in the future.

The comment above was posted by @sha at April 28, 2008 09:08 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ Cao

I don't know much about history and I am not interested in politics. It just irks me a lot this overblown Han chauvinism by some Chinese minorities outside China. Even one of my neighbors asked me whether I was Han, as little as most Americans know about anything outside America.

Tibet and Xinjing are inside China now and I don't see anything wrong for other Chinese population flow into the territory as if non Han never went and go into ancient Han's land.

Urghurs are FUNNY that they try to identify themselves with the "Caucasian" mummies of three thousands years old. But they were not even there then and they look much more Chinese than my maternal grandma. The media here recently reported that they were trading jade on "jade-trading" Silk Road. It is easy to see the spin.

Honestly, CCP has not done a good job and "Culture genocide" should accelerate.

The comment above was posted by funny at April 28, 2008 10:51 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Sha

Exactly.

CCP's education system never promotes Han as as the master race and old "great Han" narrative is definitely censored out. I didn't know that I belonged to the "master" race until recently in America.

The purpose of Han = Chinese and overrated "Han chauvinim" is to say Qing is not Chinese empire and Hans are like early Europeans and treat minorities as sub humans and deprive their human rights. Whatever little human rights in China, minorities have more than Han.

Some Olympic spectacle is clearly anti-Chinese. All the chaoes in Paris were reported as brave human right fighters trying to extinguish the evil China torch. the violence against Chinese supporters and Jin Jing were not reported untill much later. When Chinese out in foce, any misbehaviors by a few Chinese were highlighted.

The murderous rampage in Tibet was never really reported but the crackdown or brutal chrackdown was repeated over and over again. It is clear even to fools that human right is just a weapon.

For all relay, protesters were really minorities, but if you read one report, you might get the impression that the whole world
is agaist Chinese. In west, the chaoes mean to insult China, but to Chinese, thoes antics are barbarian rudeness.

The comment above was posted by funny at April 28, 2008 11:46 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ james whatever
"and dont yu just love this reasoning and justification for Han population invasion of Tibet and Xinjaing and poor Inner Mongolia:"

Poor Mongols? Mongols killed many more Hans that Hans killed Mongols. If Hans are not good enough to live with Mongols, the Mongolian Chinese can go to Mongolian country. I have not seen mass migration yet.

The comment above was posted by funny at April 29, 2008 12:14 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

A Han Chinese "Xinjiang"er's comments:

http://thechinabeat.blogspot.com/2008/04/growing-up-han-reflections-on-xinjiang.html

The comment above was posted by heverci at April 29, 2008 12:35 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ funny

"Honestly, CCP has not done a good job and "Culture genocide" should accelerate."

Any comments on this revealing statement


Heverchee's post was refreshing but still it needs critique especially 'the preferential policy' bit which is in existence but is really mainly CCP spin. Most minorities do not bnenefiot from preferential treatment- some only in the field of education- it sounds good and is often used by Han to counter balance charges of inequality among the ethnicities. I suppose they believe it...

The comment above was posted by James the Drink Spiker at April 29, 2008 04:09 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Ok, whoever is impersonating people needs to stop now.

Sha, going back several posts, yes, the Chinese government is within its rights to put down revolts (not that they should have been in Tibet in the first place). However, they have consistently put down revolts far more harshly than they should. Shooting at soldiers is one thing. Public executions of those who have surrendered (many of whom never attacked the Chinese) is something very different.

Granted, the Chinese government has gotten better. Also granted that the Chinese government doesn't really treat its own population very well. What I'm trying to show you is the Tibetan perspective.

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 29, 2008 08:00 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ HAHAHA

China's netizen police = China's self-regulated internet users dumbo. Back to school for you, sunny.

But you're right, I must retract my last statement, it is obvious that you are a knob jockey, not a Chinese netizen, but bored with his job, probably not very good at it, hence, resorted to annoy people on blogs and circulate your pithy (or do I mean pity) wit to your equally jaded work mates.

You may laugh at this blog, but we both know funny is your life :)

The comment above was posted by Jimba at April 29, 2008 09:14 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@funny
@hahahahaahaha
@Cao
@sha
@pseudo james

and all the jolly comrades from the 'office'.

your terrible jokes have put Jimba around the bend. hes starting to see spooks everywhere. damn psychological warfare yu guys are waging.Enticing me with femme fatales like Lydia. Who I woulda even let infiltrate my hutong fastness. For me Ive decided I dont want Lydia anymore. Anyway she has all my photos - yes "those" fotos and knows exactly how large my schlong is if ever she...

anyway back to your revisionist history lesson if yu dont mind I respond to all of your overnight missives in one go - well yu are all working out of the same office right?


"You are correct. Dadu, the capital that Kubilai built was burned by Ming army. Current city of Beijing is build upon Ming foundation. Just ignore that guy who pretends that he knows Chinese history just because he read couple of books.

SO the Ming army even burnt the foundations of Dadu. The Ming city was built on the site and plan of the old MONGOL city. Need I got page and reference this for yu. I can. On that topic for the Mongols who retreated back into Mongolia (inner Mongolia) the Yuan never ended - the Yuan was the great eternal Mongol dynasty. It did not cease with the Ming. it continued in Mongol reasoning. Its territories were just contracted (like an accordion). According to the historic reasoning guys like Cao and happy offer the Mongols then could rightfully claim China still as part of Mongol territory. Why is the Han state the only one that has enduring legitimacy? IT WAS ALWAYS contested and only survived through compromise.

"It is FUNNY to use ethnicity of Last Chinese Emperor or the map of Han dynasty(over two thousands years old) to argue where modern Han Chinese should live. It is meaningless in reality to relocate population according to where the Romans live or who ancient Britons were."

the Romans and Britons now live within their ancient territorial boundaries. because The Han
stretched west into the 36 kingdoms of Xiyu doesnt entitle them to those lands today - the Qin was the original territory according to funny's reasoning not mine.

"@ Cao

I don't know much about history and I am not interested in politics."

BULLSHIT; but yes yu dont know much about history; but your motivation is entirely political, commissar funny.


"It just irks me a lot this overblown Han chauvinism by some Chinese minorities outside China. Even one of my neighbors asked me whether I was Han, as little as most Americans know about anything outside America

Chinese minorities outside China? Hey once they leave they aint Chinese minorities any longer- yu do not own them master. and yu deny the master race label - man yu guys are so lost in this ethno-historical lie yu dont know yr heads from ya farty arses.


"Urghurs are FUNNY that they try to identify themselves with the "Caucasian" mummies of three thousands years old. But they were not even there then and they look much more Chinese than my maternal grandma. The media here recently reported that they were trading jade on "jade-trading" Silk Road. It is easy to see the spin.

Honestly, CCP has not done a good job and "Culture genocide" should accelerate."

this blatant racist stuff speaks for itself. It is very sick and twisted and to tell yu the truth funny I am really starting to pity yu. I was speaking with Han people today (yes in fluent mandarin), they were so nice and friendly and calm. Yu behave like a xenophobic lunatic. what happened to yu? IS your kind of nationalism detrimental to emotional and psychic health? I get a feeling of sickness from yu. I feel ill now actually but I will continue...

"CCP's education system never promotes Han as as the master race and old "great Han" narrative is definitely censored out. I didn't know that I belonged to the "master" race until recently in America."

exactly... yu are a frog being slowly boiled in warm water - yu dont even know what yu are in. and we are to believe yu are in america...which little espionage group yu in? one in SF?

the official proscription of Dahanzhuyi by the CCP and its actual retention in the attitude of everyday Han are two different things egg-head (hui dan).

"For all relay, protesters were really minorities, but if you read one report, you might get the impression that the whole world
is agaist Chinese. In west, the chaoes mean to insult China, but to Chinese, thoes antics are barbarian rudeness.

so feel bad yu naughty rude barbarians. Remember that next time yu encounter the deep manners of the Chinese at say Beijing central railway station. yu rude barbarians. now sorry I really gotta laugh...may I blow my nose on yu, spit on your floor or piss in the corner while yu eat your lunch...? yep yu Chinese sure arent rude...protest about a tyrannical political system which murders its opponents for speaking, just speaking against it...that aint rude or barbarian - that is civilzation-- oh yeah an inverted universe again. If it were not so twisted I wouldnt bother writing this stufff to guys like funny who have nothing between their ears but propaganada and national delusions of greatness.

"Poor Mongols? Mongols killed many more Hans that Hans killed Mongols. If Hans are not good enough to live with Mongols, the Mongolian Chinese can go to Mongolian country. I have not seen mass migration yet."

Again not only the Opium war, the nanjing massacre not forgotten nor forgiven, but Genghiz Qan. Good sporting nations better watch out at the Olympics - they better not win the ping -pong coz China gonna get pissed offf for 10000 years of bitterneess - I mean its their only chance of winning a medal (cant drug their swimmers no more)- let em have one...my God Mongols still unforgiven. Anyone else - Cromagnum man for finishing off Peking Man...come to think of it funny maybe yu are a throwback seeing yu like being all racial and ethnic and brutal and rude about things. I know now - yu are a stone age ape.


The comment above was posted by James the Scumbag at April 29, 2008 11:21 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Torch protest successful despite intimidation


Leigh Huges & Amy McDonnell, Canberra
26 April 2008


On April 24, as day broke over Canberra, red flags with yellow stars moved in columns throughout the city, held in the hands of marchers, fluttering from car aerials and hanging in the windows of hundreds of buses.


Steel fences lined the roads, and smoke and the smell of gunpowder from fireworks floated over Lake Burley Griffin: the Olympic torch relay had brought a little taste of Beijing to the capital.

More than 10,000 China supporters had arrived in Canberra to greet the torch and support the Olympic Games, but primarily they were there to “defend their homeland” against what they described as “lies of the Tibetans”. Throughout the day it was not the Olympic slogan of “one dream” chanted by the China supporters — predominantly students —, but “one China forever”.

This passion was matched by more than 1000 supporters of human rights and self-determination for Tibet and East Turkistan. When the two crowds met at Reconciliation Place, the atmosphere was far from conciliatory. Flags and banners were wrested from the hands of Tibet supporters, and a Chinese flag was set alight.

The Tibetan demonstration had two central demands. Firstly, that China negotiate with the Dalai Lama, and secondly, that the Olympic torch not go through Tibet on its journey to Beijing — an action that solidarity activists say will incite further unrest and deepen the crisis.

The protests shifted to Parliament House, where the passionate crowd heard from a number of speakers, including the Greens’ Bob Brown and Canadian singer k.d. lang, who condemned the persecution of Uighur Muslims in East Turkistan.

The protesters came from a wide variety of backgrounds: Tibet solidarity groups, Burma activists, the East Turkistan Association, Amnesty International, GetUp!, Resistance and the Socialist Alliance all lent their support. “Free Tibet” was written across the sky by a small plane.

Pro-Tibet protest organisers declared the day a success. Simon Bradshaw from the Australia Tibet Council said it was “an exemplary show of non-violence from the Tibetan community and its supporters in spite of tremendous antagonism”.

The Chinese Embassy enthusiastically supported the China contingents, paying “most of the expenses [and providing] virtually all of the organisation, down to transport, accommodation, strategies, tactics, marshals, face markings and issues of Chinese flags”, according to Jack Waterford in the April 25 Canberra Times.

The embassy’s private urging of Chinese students to engage in “patriotic activity” to counter Free Tibet campaigners — while publicly calling on Tibetans to keep politics out of the event — is hard to view as anything but hypocrisy.

However, despite the actions of the embassy, the China supporters were not just a “rent-a-crowd”. Many were angered at what they perceived was unjustified criticism of China and media bias over the events in their Tibet by the West.

This anger was compounded by disgust at criticism of China’s human rights record by a country with its own record tarnished by its treatment of Indian doctor Dr Mohamed Haneef and of its Indigenous people, as well as by its support for the torture camp at Guantanamo Bay. One pro-China protester summed up the sentiment: “You have no right to lecture us about what we do in our own country when you do not respect human rights in your own.”

Socialist Alliance activist Graham Mathews, who traveled down from Sydney to join the “Free Tibet” action, told Green Left Weekly that “regardless of the hypocrisy of governments like Australia’s criticising China, the Tibetan people have the right to self-determination. We can not pick and chose who deserves justice and who doesn’t because of the manoeuvres of the powerful. Socialists support all struggles for social justice, including the democratic rights of the Tibetan people to determine their future.”

From: Australian News, Green Left Weekly issue #748 30 April 2008.

The comment above was posted by James Hughes at April 29, 2008 11:56 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Kucha, China - King Daoud Mehsut of Kucha, 12th in his royal line and the last man still alive in China to have sat on a monarch's throne, is a man of noble bearing and proud visage.

The old man's fate, however, is dispiriting. Once a leader of his Uighur people – the Muslim ethnic group that predominates in this far western province of Xinjiang – King Daoud is now wheeled out by two young Chinese female assistants presenting him as a tourist attraction to visitors prepared to buy a 200 RMB ($28.60) ticket. "I get a cut," he says simply.

King Daoud's humiliation, say some Uighurs (prounced WEE-gur), is a sign of what is in store for their culture as a whole in the face of the Chinese government's relentless drive to settle more and more ethnic Han Chinese in traditionally Uighur territory, rich in oil and minerals.

"We feel like foreigners in our own land," complains one Uighur teacher in the provincial capital of Urumqi, who offers only a nickname, Batur, for fear of angering the authorities. "We are like the Indians in America." Or Tibetans in Tibet. "Most Uighurs sympathize with the Tibetans," says Batur. "We feel we are all under the same sort of rule."

for the rest see

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0428/p01s01-woap.html


and yes to the office comrades "funny" "cao" "hahaaha" the fotos show just how "chinese" the modern (not old Uighur) Uyghur look. even like 3000 year old mummies...

The comment above was posted by James Hughes at April 29, 2008 12:40 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ all the han chauvanists, and chinese agents

why do Chinese people wine and cry all the time and never forget history, opium wars, mongol invasions?

they always talk like, we are the victim,
damn you guys are more annoying than jews and blacks who always cry back in my home country.

grow up

Sig Heil

The comment above was posted by James the triumph of the will at April 29, 2008 01:14 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@James who keeps changing his name.

"they always talk like, we are the victim,
damn you guys are more annoying than jews and blacks who always cry back in my home country."

I was shocked when a friend referred me to this website to see extremists from both sides go at it. but your last comment is digusting. saying that jews and balcks are crying about hisotry.

you are an insensitive racist hate monger, commenters like you need to know where the line is, and you crossed it big time.

The comment above was posted by Denis at April 29, 2008 01:32 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@everyone

these guys are at it again and I must say being totally unoriginal in doing so. Wherever yu see 'Sig Heil' yu know it is one of these droogs at work. Im sorry. Its not James who they usually attack. but the pseudo james. TIAKO above is right they should stop this and just post under more fitting nom de plumes such as "snarlface" and "turdbrain" and "lildick" I mean "James the Triumph of the Will" what the fuck does that mean? What idiot would come up with something like that: Ill tellya - comrades "hahahaahaha" or "Cao" or "Jim" or the very boring and humourless "funny". What this means is they are pissed off by reminding them about hanging on to their shame and wounds and defeats: Opium Wars , Mongol Victories etc, etc. On another blog I will not mention there is a far more reponsible and educated debate about this topic from thoughtful Han people. Yu guys should stop making eggs of yaselves. and face history...it hurts ...i now...but its good fr yu

The comment above was posted by James the Original at April 29, 2008 01:38 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Denis

seeing yu are new

the last post about blacks and stuff is not from me James who is always changing his name; but a lil Han fascist cabal. I change my name coz they are always using my name to post such rot. Im not extreme. James the original.

and what do yu mean offended???

yu a woos or somethin?

The comment above was posted by James at April 29, 2008 01:41 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

triumph of the will was the nazi propaganda movie made at nuremberg rally, im sure its in your video library.

hahahaha,

keep it up, you make the fatherland proud.

The comment above was posted by hahaha at April 29, 2008 02:08 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

For anyone just observing and who are astonished at the likes of hahahaha. All I did was to suggest way up there on this thread, after giving Backman's article a diss, was that Tibet could have true autonomy. That brings the hahahahahas out with their fairy tale histories and nasty nasty stuff which I dont take as I am not handcuffed to a chair in a grimy lil room someplace. No doubt their prefered place of discussion. I did go over the top with Lydia. But hey she said she wanted to get me or get me got by da boys more like it. I wanted a fight out the front of the hutong with choppers when they came fr me...but...

and she wanted to post my pics on Tianya.cn

I object to that coz its all pretty lil butterflies and lil gals in pigtails and smileys everywhere giggling on the webpage format and although I speak putonghua I dont read that well and I cant find them pics anywhere although I searched. AND I was shocked that such a pretty innocuous package was really a front for basically as yu can see for yourselves ultranatioanlist fascists. beware of giggling pig tailed girls surrounded by butterflies is my advice. Fortunately all Han people are not like this - many may share their distorted historical views but would not chew the noose as they do at the thought of it not being true. Dont forget yu can be executed as a splittist in China for holding alternative historical views to the grand narrative of the eternal, glorioius, indivisble state (read CCP). How many Uyghur languish in Urumqi prisons for daring to say they have their own historic centrality as a people? I bait these mindless drones I know - but - its educational for one and all to see them in action. Voyeurs like Denis appear (he may be one of them though possibly)and can see extremists in action. Anyway How tired everyone can be of this one can only guess. IS IT POSSIBLE FOR THE WEBMEISTER TO CLOSE A THREAD? Or should I go into self imposed exile. Forget my hot desires for Lydia leave Beijing with me african gal and go someplace in the mountains of Gansu where there aint no bloody internet...its just a shot away...

The comment above was posted by James at April 29, 2008 02:38 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Re: the post above

Psuedo James strikes again.
Ok this is ridiculous, and its getting anooying that i have to keep making these rebuttals, about people impersonating me.

that long drab of garbage that was posted above is not me, the real James. although they did a great job of imitating me.

"How many Uyghur languish in Urumqi prisons for daring to say they have their own historic centrality as a people? I bait these mindless drones I know - but - its educational for one and all to see them in action."

wow, yu really captured my words well Cao, hahaha, or which ever han fascists it was.

its amazing how they imitated me to say outrageous things, but now they are imitating my rebuttals.

The comment above was posted by James the Original at April 29, 2008 03:28 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

LOL!!!
'Free Tibet' flags made in China

Police in southern China have discovered a factory manufacturing Free Tibet flags, media reports say.

here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7370903.stm

The comment above was posted by chon_dada at April 29, 2008 05:40 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Seriously, the asshole impersonating James needs to stop. All you are doing is basically admitting that you can't win the argument fairly.

"triumph of the will was the nazi propaganda movie made at nuremberg rally, im sure its in your video library"
To be fair, it is an excellently made film,

The comment above was posted by Tiako at April 30, 2008 04:26 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2008/s2225682.htm

Broadcast: 29/04/2008
Reporter: Stephen McDonell
LEAD STORY
SERIES 17
EPISODE 33

Synopsis
There are an estimated 60 million bloggers in China and 230 million Chinese internet users, making it the fastest growing market in the world.

Internationally people assume the internet is an open and uncontrollable phenomenon, but in China popular western web sites like Wikipedia, Flikr and YouTube are all restricted.

China has the most sophisticated censorship and internet surveillance of any country in the world. Human rights groups say that about 30 journalists and 50 internet users are known to be behind bars. The US based Committee to Protect Journalists has branded China “the world’s leading jailer of journalists.” But some Chinese bloggers have learnt to work within the system and push its boundaries. Shanghai based venture capitalist Isaac Mao was one of the first Chinese bloggers.

He tells Stephen McDonell, “I think it’s a game... like a cat and mouse - because people are always trying to be more free - freer to access more information.”
McDonell: “People are the mouse and the Government is the cat?“
Isaac Mao: “And the Government always wants to try to act as the cat to control and to limit people’s access to the whole world of information but I think the mouse is running faster.”

In north western Xianxi Province, Zhang Shihe, a self trained guerilla journalist travels to isolated areas, filming poor rural workers and posting their stories on his blog.

“When I write my blog, I rely on my instinct. Am I telling the truth or lies? Am I evilly attacking something. Or am I trying to help improve the situation? I know if I can control this, I’ll be fine. If I am thrown in jail or something, I don’t really care, because I am not wrong.”

Former CNN correspondent bureau chief and China expert, Rebecca MacKinnon explains, “there is surveillance, there certainly are internet police whose job it is, who work in public security apparatus to track speech on the internet.”

However, as Mackinnon explains, China wants to be a global economic power and a cultural powerhouse, so “the Chinese government’s goal is not to control 100 percent of what people are doing one hundred percent of the time.“

“In order to remain in power they want to prevent certain kinds of conversations and certain kinds of uses of the internet that might lead to people organising to overthrow the Communist Party.”

One crucial case is the Chinese journalist Shi Tao. He e-mailed a US based web site with the Chinese government’s hitherto secret instructions on how to report on the 15th anniversary of the 1989 Tiananmen Square crackdown. For this he’s serving ten years in jail for “leaking state secrets”.
Last year Yahoo apologised to Shi Tao’s family for helping Chinese authorities to find and arrest him. The global internet giant paid his family compensation.

The comment above was posted by James Hughes at April 30, 2008 09:10 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Torch has made Beijing blind: artist Font Size: Decrease Increase Print Page: Print Sian Powell |

The Australian April 30, 2008

CHINESE artist Ai Weiwei spoke out like a true rebel in Sydney yesterday, criticising Beijing's adoration of the Olympic Games and the torch relay.

"I don't see myself as a dissident artist, I see them as a dissident government," the Beijing-based artist said at the opening of a major installation of beams and tables called Through at the Sherman Contemporary Art Foundation.

Courting an official reprimand, he also took aim at the state-run Chinese newspapers, which continually referred to the Games as the "Holy Games" and the torch relay as the "Holy torch".

Holiness, he said, wasn't even a communist concept. "I think they (the Chinese Government) encourage nationalist behaviour," he added, referring to the torch relay.

"It's blind; it's sentiment without a clear intellectual concept. It's crazy, what they're so excited about."

An internationally esteemed artist, Ai helped design the Beijing Olympic Stadium, now usually referred to as the Birds Nest Stadium.

He hasn't been invited to the opening ceremony, but he said he didn't care. "It's such a bureaucratic society we have, they don't even dare to invite someone like me," he said. "The architect is nothing to such an official society."

China has never taken kindly to criticism, but Ai refuses to self-censor too much.

"I think I could get into trouble because all the journalists ask me these questions," he said.

Told he didn't have to answer, he replied: "That's not my style."

He is ready for a stern official reaction. "I've been waiting for that moment. Everybody warns me of this. If nothing happens, it will be a big disappointment."

Still, he said he was not sorry he was involved in the design of the stadium. "It's for the people and for the city. The stadium is good work."

Ai is in Australia for a week, with an exhibition called Under Construction at the Campbelltown Arts Centre in Sydney. It features a work commissioned for the centre titled Marble Chair.

He said he was surprised at how slowly China was changing - yet he agreed that massive changes had occurred over the past decade. "You can talk about sex, you can talk about anything, society is so free. There's no strong moral discipline."

But he said politics was the exception, with much forbidden.

"I hope China will learn a bit from this event (the Olympics), and really try to rethink its position and its own values," Ai said, adding that he hoped values such as democracy

The comment above was posted by James Hughes at April 30, 2008 09:28 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

The other anti-Chinese protestors

Last Modified: 28 Apr 2008
By: Lindsey Hilsum

Tibet is the main focus of protests targeting the Olympic torch as it makes its way to China, but some demonstrators are also championing China's Uighur Muslim minority.

The Chinese government says some Uighurs have been involved in a terrorist plot to disrupt the Games in Beijing in August.

Human rights campaigners say that like the Tibetans to their south, the Uighurs are simply protesting against heavy-handed tactics and ethnic discrimination.

In recent weeks the border with Pakistan and Afghanistan has seen demonstrations and arrests. In a rare report from this remote region, our China correspondent Lindsey Hilsum went to investigate.

Watch the report:

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/international_politics/the+other+antichinese+protestors+/2096047

The comment above was posted by Heverci at April 30, 2008 09:34 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Tiako

"triumph of the will was the nazi propaganda movie made at nuremberg rally, im sure its in your video library"

To be fair, it is an excellently made film,

it is ironic to see Tiako who acccuses china of being a fascist, nazi like country, where its citizens are blinded by propaganda, embrace the ultimtae piece of fascists propanganda in history.

The comment above was posted by jim at April 30, 2008 11:05 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Thanks Tiako.

Now we know who posted that pseudo James comment under the 'power of the will' moniker. it was that nasty 'Jim' who claims he is a generational Canadian but whose syntax betrays he is a chinese student or immigrant. he also goes by the name hahahahaha. Thanks, things are becoming clearer now for us who read these pages. They are very threatedned by that James guy arent they? They dont like you either do they Tiako?

Im snot sure if they are fascists or not but they are definitely very sick puppies.

As others have pointed out this is all very revealing. Knowing there are Chinese people like this just throws the entire Chinese desire for world credibility and their equally strong desire to belong to the family of nations back to the beginning of the last century. It is also their nationalist historical views which are used to hold Uighurs and Tibetans in political thralldom to the Chinese communist state - they are parrots of such views and thanks to yourself and others on this blog who have challenged them and drawn them out for all to see what they are really like and what they believe about history and the minorities. Are their views representative of many Chinese? I would hope not but unfortunately that maybe true. Keep up the good but difficult work.

The comment above was posted by jayhaitch at April 30, 2008 12:39 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

China talks aimed at saving Olympics, not Tibet: analysts


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5giljpQRy_QuBH4Rp8kMlv8g9Y__g

The comment above was posted by james Hughes at April 30, 2008 12:41 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@james hughes

not only does china care more about the torch, so does pakistan. they gave more protection to the torch than bhutto.

its a realist world hate to say it.

The comment above was posted by jim at April 30, 2008 12:49 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@hewerchee

thanks for that link from channel 4. Great Video footage of Chinese oppression of Uyghurs - great footage of Hotan. Great brave Uyghur voices and excellent reporting and coverage including Wang Le Quan our leader in Xinjiang. I must say I am a loyaloChinese but this clip has changed my attitudes somewhat. All Chinese should see it..

The comment above was posted by hahahaha at April 30, 2008 12:54 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

hahahaha they are using my tactics, i love it. and obviously jayhatch is James, the racists sinophobe. you can tell by the layout of his comment. nice try james, gustappo commander

The comment above was posted by hahahaha at April 30, 2008 01:19 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@hewerchi

thansk alkso for that videop footage of Hetian .I also had no idea that the Uighur peopel felt that way or were under so much oppression. Its really changed my views. I didnt know Wang Le Quan was such an awful pig. Please keep posting this type of links, people need to know whats going on:

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/international_politics/the+other+antichinese+protestors+/2096047


The comment above was posted by Jim at April 30, 2008 02:44 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

The seditious monstrosities who domieer the lumpenproletariat will one day pay the price for thier wickedness. The proles will rise and overthrow the oppressive regimes. Then, a new world order will rise...

http://thejonesyreport.blogpot.com/

The comment above was posted by jonesy at April 30, 2008 02:46 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@heverchi

also like to add my support . Ive found this video clip completely took me back. Had no idea Uighur could feel like that in my country. really; Im embarrassed and humiliated amd have been wrong for so long; and i agree with Jim Wang le Quan really comes across like pig...things have to chanmge I wil tell all my Han friends to watch this clip

The comment above was posted by funny at April 30, 2008 02:49 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

on ya Jonesy

The comment above was posted by James Hughes at April 30, 2008 02:51 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

woops sorry Jonesy is an apocalypticist I checked that link...um..

The comment above was posted by James Hughes at April 30, 2008 02:53 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Another carrot and stick approach article by another American 'forein affairs' expert on how to deal with China

The Right Way to Pressure Beijing

By William F. Schulz

Human rights groups are rightly outraged about China’s abysmal record. But it is foolhardy to treat a rising superpower like a tin-pot dictatorship. Sometimes, a little pragmatism goes a long way.


http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4299

The comment above was posted by James Hughes at April 30, 2008 02:58 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

before I go to bed...from the doyenne of the China analysts: Willy Wo Lap Lam

Beijing Intensifies "People’s War" Against “Splittism” as Nationalism Rears its Head


While Beijing started last weekend to rein in nationalistic outbursts against Western media and governments, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has upped the ante in its “people’s war” against separatists who are allegedly in cahoots with “anti-China elements overseas” to undermine Chinese rule and disrupt the Beijing Olympics. As police in various cities were issuing warnings to protestors outside Carrefour supermarkets last Saturday and Sunday, the Hu Jintao administration has intensified efforts to suppress and contain the “splittists” in Tibet and Xinjiang—and using nationalistic sentiments to help achieve its goal. As the nation is being swept by a tidal wave of "patriotism" if not xenophobia, liberal intellectuals who had earlier implored Beijing to consider conciliatory policies toward the two autonomous regions no longer dare raise their voice for fear of being labeled traitors. The CCP leadership is also hopeful that CNN, BBC and other Western media—having been put on the defensive by tens of thousands of angry Chinese Netizens and demonstrators in the United States and Europe—might think twice when reporting on the CCP's iron fisted tactics in China’s far west regions (People's Daily Online, April 21)...

With foreign media barred from Tibet and also swathes of neighboring provinces with large Tibetan communities, People's Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers and the People’s Armed Police (PAP) have stepped up arrests of monks, radical intellectuals and other “instigators” of unrest that mainstream Western media have picked up in Lhasa since March 10. Only recently did authorities acknowledge that more than 4,000 detentions of Tibetan “troublemakers” had been made (Xinhua News Agency, April 9). The exiled Tibetan movement has claimed that at least several hundreds of other Tibetans had simply disappeared or were unaccounted for (International Campaign for Tibet, April 17). The official Xinhua News Agency quoted Deputy Lhasa Police Chief Jiang Zaiping as saying that while 365 Tibetans who had taken part in the March 14 “beating, smashing, looting and burning” incident in Lhasa had surrendered themselves to authorities, the latter were still hunting for about 90 suspects—and on April 18, 40 truckloads of PAP reportedly went into Sara Temple and hauled off more than 400 monks...Given that the local prison was already full, these monks were locked up in a brick kiln (Ming Pao, April 19, 22; Radio Free Asia, April 21). Sorties by PAP and police into monasteries in Tibet, as well as Tibetan counties in Gansu, Qinghai and Sichuan provinces have reportedly uncovered large caches of firearms, ammunition and other weapons. That the crackdown could last much longer than expected was clear from signs that Beijing was unlikely to honor its pledge to re-open the Tibetan capital to tourists, diplomats and correspondents on May 1. PLA and PAP officers recently closed off the highway crossing at the Nepal-Tibet border, through which some 1,500 tourists and other travelers had passed into the TAR everyday (Xinhua News Agency, April 20; The Associated Press, April 17)...Given that nationalistic and pro-government voices are set to dominate China’s universe of discourse until at least the Olympics, the Hu team seems assured of ironclad support from the great majority of Han Chinese in waging ever-tougher versions of “people’s warfare,” which includes rounding up more “conspirators” in Tibet and Xinjiang, and heavy-handed ideological education for Han Chinese about the imperative of fighting “splittists and traitors” among ethnic minorities.

read on...

http://www.jamestown.org/china_brief/article.php?articleid=2374129

The comment above was posted by James Hughes at April 30, 2008 03:10 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@funny, hahahaha, Jim

you tamade fools what you do?? reading that shit propaganda.looking at foreign news video. I told you not now you all in trouble. what happen yo you. dont believe

The comment above was posted by Cao Meng De at April 30, 2008 03:38 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@funny, hahahaha, Jim

you tamade fools what you do?? reading that shit propaganda.looking at foreign news video. I told you not now you all in trouble. what happen yo you. dont believe

The comment above was posted by Cao Meng De at April 30, 2008 03:40 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@james whatever,

"Heverchee's post was refreshing but still it needs critique especially 'the preferential policy' bit which is in existence but is really mainly CCP spin. Most minorities do not bnenefiot from preferential treatment- some only in the field of education- it sounds good and is often used by Han to counter balance charges of inequality among the ethnicities. I suppose they believe it..."

Education is the greatest equalizer pretty much everywhere on earth. Could you tell me exactly that rights Han Chinese have and minorities do not?

In reality, Han Chinese have been ethnically cleansed for decades and most of them are still dirt poor farmers even with the smallest family size.

The standard of living for Machurian Chinese is the highest in China(infant mortality rate, life expectancy, education, income...), followed by Korean Chinese. That should blow away the so-called Han chauvinsm of CCP.

I challenge you to compare white Amerians to Native Americans, or white Americans to African Americams.


The comment above was posted by funny at April 30, 2008 11:18 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Yeah yeah... basic subsistence and development are China's main human rights concern...

Your argument heralds from another time, when terra nullius, imperialism and land could be subjugated by force... I believe Xinjiang is an example of Qing dynastic expansion.

African and Native American rights in America far surpass those enjoyed by minorities in China. To be sure part of this is because of the superior US economic wealth but if you compare political rights, freedom of association... autonomy...etc then your proposed comparison counteracts itself.

The comment above was posted by jimba at May 1, 2008 10:33 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

hahaha, funny, Jim . I command you all come back capital now. I warned you. You are all traitors.

The comment above was posted by Cao Meng de at May 1, 2008 12:17 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Cao Meng De
leave boys alone. If tehy want to change their view s you will have to let them. Your juridsticteon of them is only China. They can answer when they go home. And leave James. I have seen him and think everything is OK. he's nice. I believe in Love now. Cao you should see video. I have pics.

The comment above was posted by Lydia at May 1, 2008 12:25 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@funny

Surely, your argument is in fact an admission of guilt and a way of seeking remission of that guilt by blame shifting.


Does it ever occurr to you that the same (western)people who criticize China for their human rights abuses and the deploarable inequalities between the Han society and Minority "autonomous"
areas also criticize their own western governemnts for their abuse and unequal treatment of Indians, Arican Americans, Australian Aboriginals, Maoris etc?

In other words just because then West do it or have done it (centuries ago) doesn't mean China is right in doing it now or should be forgiven for doing it now or be justified in doing it now. It doesnt mean that westerners should not lift their voices aginst Han racism toward minorities. They also speak against it in their own countries. This is not a simplistic polarised 'the West is right China is wrong' argument. It is not just an antichina criticism- it is an universal condemnation of all abusive regimes in all countries - China included. Can you see that?

The comment above was posted by cheery at May 1, 2008 12:54 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@jimba

"African and Native American rights in America far surpass those enjoyed by minorities in China. To be sure part of this is because of the superior US economic wealth but if you compare political rights, freedom of association... autonomy...etc then your proposed comparison counteracts itself."

It is hard to reason with someone completely lacks of minimum logic. To prove minority discriminations in one country, you have to compare the minority to the majority in the same country.

Sure, minorities in USA has more political rights than those in China and they can say pretty much whatever they want, just like the majority in USA. But in reality, they are not living like the first world citizens because of the long history of the racism sanctioned by the government.

Remember Katrina? It was clear that most of trapped victims were African Americans. Lots of them were overweighed for lack of quality foods and some of them had missing teeth for lack of dental care. Minimum help was slow to come. For a country capable of dropping precision bombs in a faraway place, it did make you wonder whether the help would have come sooner if most of victms had white faces with white and straight teeth (expensive dental care).

The comment above was posted by funny at May 4, 2008 12:08 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@cheery

"Surely, your argument is in fact an admission of guilt and a way of seeking remission of that guilt by blame shifting."

This is too funny to miss. I did not admit any guilt and I did not shift any blame. I just tried to refute the allegation of minority discrimination in China by comparing the current status quo and the history to USA

Compared to Europeans, Han Chinese has been much less aggressive and Europeans are still holding the most horrific records of dealing with other races.

Of course, no group of people have been or will be truly peace loving. Homo sapiens are really just part of nature as much as some people like to think otherwise. If Europeans became saints after colonizing two large continents with guns and germs, why are they keeping thousands of nuclear bombs enough to pulverize the earth three times?

Tibet and Xinjing have been the frontlines of the "great game". It is naive for some ultra liberals to believe that the world should be a utopia just because it is 21st century and there is so called "self determination" some where in the UN charters.

"Cultural genocide", some time real genocide, has been going on all through history and can only speed up because of explosive population growth and globalization. The real threat to Homo sapiens is that the population will continue to grow and food and water crisis will continue to intensify to the point that all hells break. Then World War IV will be fought with "stones and sticks", but before that some small pockets of human survivors will live without "cultural genocide" for a while.

The comment above was posted by funny at May 4, 2008 02:41 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ Funny

Both political and civil rights and economic, cultural and social rights enjoyed by American's far surpass China on a comparative and equal basis.

African Americans are presented a swath of opportunities compared to Chinese minorities because their rights are protected by a strong constitution with good legislative processes. Minority rights in China, although protected in your constitution, suffer from a lack of legislative processes (the NPCSC is controlled by the CCP so they have no real power in passing legislation without CCP approval, unlike the US congress)and, if say a Uighur is denied a job in the Xinjiang recourse industry, there is little chance for that person to redress this matter through law.

I do have a bit more than a minimal knowledge on this matter. I suggest you figure out of your talking about political and civil or economic, social and cultural rights. Both of which, I suggest, are far more enjoyed by American minorities than Chinese: The Han being some of the racist people I have come across.

The comment above was posted by Jimba at May 6, 2008 09:16 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

This guy "the west" really is a capricious hypocrite! . . . or are we talking about dozens of nations and hundreds of millions of people.

Were these Tibet protesters supporting China's bid for the games nine years ago?

I guess we really will live in a Chinese dominated Brave New World when "the west" speaks with one consistent and unchanging voice.

The comment above was posted by david at May 8, 2008 03:18 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ David

what are yu talking about?

The comment above was posted by James at May 9, 2008 07:48 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ David, you'll make a good overseas student yet! You just need to work on making your copy and pasting more logical.

The comment above was posted by Jimba at May 12, 2008 11:56 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

"occupation is occupation and its humiliating, being occupied by foreigners who come from tens of thousand miles away who dont know your culture or history is wrong

id rather be poor and free rather than rich and someone's else bitch. "

I have strong belief of what said above, even the speaker has used it for backing up his double standard theory, for iraq people, for tibetan people and for uyghur people that is the same on one welcomes occupation even the invader brings money, prosperity or all the evils.

The comment above was posted by holty at May 21, 2008 05:03 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ Holty

could you translate the above passage for us English speakers? Havent got a clue what you are talking about. Or who you are talking about. Or what instance You are atalking about?

The comment above was posted by James at May 25, 2008 01:23 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

What is democracy? one man one vote? equal right with equal responsibility? It use to be unequal right with unequal responsibility. 4 years term, 6 years terms, or 15 years term? Vote for everythings or delegate vote to selected few?
Free speech with no restriction? can I shout fire in a theatle? Free press? Is it ok to lie for money? Is there only one type of democracy? is there a perfect one with no neccesity for improvement, can it be applied everywhere lock stock and barrel, like in Iraq?

It is stupid to say this is democracy and that is not. All political system are based on democracy, even during the time of slavery America is called a democracy. In fact all the grapping of land by colonialist were done in the name of democracy.

All political system have to change, based on circumstances and the wish of the people. It also means if the people wanted no change in the make up of government, it is still a democracy.

The comment above was posted by kehan khan han at May 25, 2008 08:31 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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The comment above was posted by KINO at December 27, 2009 10:41 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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غرفه المعيشة بأشكالها المختلفة
غرف نوم هادئه ورمانسيه جدا وناعمه احلي غرف نوم
غرفة نوم، كنابل لغرفه النوم ، كفرات ، فرش ،كنبل ، ديباج ،كفر وصور غرف نوم وسراير 2009
غرف نووووم للبنات..
رسم جدران ، الرسوم علي الجدار ، لوحة رسم علي الجدران ، أحلي رسم الجدران
اجمل غرف اطفال في العالم
صور اثاث منزل صالات غرف نوم جلسات مطبخ اصباغ للغرف كراسي وغيرها من اثاث بيت وشقق
غرف نوم في غاية الرومانسيه
غرف نوم للبيبيات الحلوين
موسوعه من الاْبواب للمنازل الجميله حياكم
مجموعة من شراشف غرف النوم ‏
من اروع الاناشيد انشودة انا داري احلي انشودة بصوت طفل
بحث كامل عن شخصية نحوية ، بحوث عن اشخاص نحوي نحو ابحاث
بحث الطرق الجيوفيزيائية تقنيات استكشاف المياة الجوفية
تعبير انجليزي ، تعبير باللغة الانجليزية ، تعابير انجليزية تعبير لغة English
بحوث اسلامية كاملة ، ابحاث اسلامية منوعه
بحث عن البعث عقيدة وحياة ، حمل البعث عقيدة وحياة كامل
البوربوينت كاملة منوعه اكثر البوربوينت جاهزه وافضلها حمل علي جهازك
النظرية السياسية ..النظرة
تعليم صيانة الكمبيوتر - تعلم شرح صيانة الكمبيوتر
شعر الطبيعة في الأدب الأندلسي ، بحث عن شعر الطبيعة عند الأدب الأندلسي
ثورة 14 تموز وعبد الكريم قاسم والحركة الكردية - ابحاث علمية
دور المعلم في عصر الانترنت مفيد لكل معلم
حمل التعليم الالكتروني ، بحث عن التعليم الالكتروني ، تنزيل بحوث التعليم الالكتروني
بحث عن الماء بحث جاهز عن المياة
موقع رسائل ماجستير ، رسائل دكتوراه ، موقع خاص رسالة دكتورا رسالة ماجستير
ابحاث عن تاريخ الادب العربي
تحميل بحوث جامعية عن احدث الطرق الحديثة لتعليم المكفوفين القراءة والكتابة
بحث سياسي عن النظرية السياسية المعاصرة
بحث اسلامي عن الاقتصاد في بلاد اسلامية
ابحاث ماجستير رسائل الماجستير - رسالة جاهزه مجانية وكاملة في العلوم التربوية ‏(
من ابحاث رياض الاطفال اهمية القصة عند الطفل
ابحاث تخص الصلاوات ، بحث خاص عن الصلاه ، الصلاة عن بحوث خاص جاهزه عن بحث يخص الصلاه
ابحاث بحث أسلاميه - اقتصاديه - سياسيه - محاسبه - بحوث جاهزه
للبحوث الشعريه بحور الشعر العربي . بحث كامل
رسائل خاصه للماجستير والدكتورا ، الان موضوع ماجستير رسائل جاهزة ماجستير وللدكتوراه
برنامج إذاعة مدرسيه كامل وسهل التحميل ، الا ذاعه المدرسيه جاهزه وممتازه جدا جدا -
صور ، صور مسنجرات ، صور msn - صور خاصه ماسنجر × صور بنات شباب حق الماسنجر -
كريم زياني
الان خطوات من أجل الاعتناء بالبشره ، اعتني في بشرتك ، للحفاظ علي البشرة والعنايه بها -
الان أعملي حمام زيت ، هنا عمل حمام زيت ، عمل حمام الزيت بنفسك -
الان أدعيه وأذكار دينيه ، أذكار وأدعية اسلاميه ، الاذكار والادعية الاسلاميه كامله -
قصص دينية اسلاميه حلوه ، قصة دينية طيبه روعه، قصص مشايخ رائعه طيبه قصص اسلاميه هادئه -
امثال مترجمه حكم وأمثال مترجمه باللغه الانجليزيه -
حمل وشاهد انمي نروتون شيبودان ، الفيلم الانمي ناروتو شيبودن حلقة فلم انمي نارتو حلقات -
منتديات صور-
توبيكات و صور روعه 2
توبيكات جاهزة توبكات ، أروع توبيكات ملونة ، توبيكات للماسنجر
توبيكآت قويه للشاعر حآمد زيد
صور بنات واطفال للمسنجر messenger صور اطفال للماسنجر
صورماسنجر جديده وحلوه مره
توبيكآت حآمد زيد
توبيكات اشعار .. توبيكات قصائد حامد زيد روعه
ماسنجر
500 صورة متحركة خاصة بالماسنجر بصيغة gif ابتسامات ومؤثرات جميلة
أجمل نيكات نيم للماسنجر..أجمل نيكات نيم للماسنجر
نيك نيم حزين و رومنسي للماسنجر ؟؟ نيك نيم حزين و رومنسي للماسنجر ؟؟
ابتسامات بناتيه و سمايلات بنات ...رووعه
اعرف من حاط لك حظر بالماسنجر ، معرفة من وضع لك بلوك كشف حظر الماسنجر شرح بالصور
اختصارات متحركة للماسنجر صور عبارات وكلمات ماسنجر
مشت وخلت وراها طفل .توبيكات مسنجر
تحميل مسنجر بلس 9 ، تنزيل ماسنجر بلس 9 Messenger Plus 9
مكشات - مقناص - كشته - صيد - قنص
اناشيد الغالي اناشيد حلوه جديده اناشيد روعه اناشيد عذبة اناشيد
صور توبيكات ، صور توبيكات ماسنجر ، توبيكات للماسنجر مع صور ...-
مسجات أم ، مسجات للأم ، رسائل للأم ، مسج للأم ، مسجات جوال خاصه للأم وللأب ، رسائل أم
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للمحجبات فساتين زفاف ، فساتين عرس خاص للمحجبات ، فساتين افراح 2010 -
فساتين زفاف ، فساتين عرس خاص للمحجبات ، فساتين افراح 2010 -
برنامج تغير صوتك في الجوال بنت ولد برنامج تغيير الاصوات اثناء المكالمة للجوال
نغمات اناشيد جوال ، مقاطع اناشيد mp3 للجوال برابط مباشر وسريع
مقاطع YouTube ، يوتيوب فيديو , Videos YouTube ،
صور ولما تشوفهم تقول ما شاءالله بنتين يبون اخ لهم والنتيجه
رسائل mms وسائط متعددة وسائط جوال 2010
رسائل اعتذار وسائط عن الاعتذار وسائط حب وعتذار
دليل المعلم مادة العلوم المنهج المطور للصف الاول كامل
التعامل مع الطفل المعاق ( المعوق) .. كيف تتعامل مع الاطفال المعاقين كاملة
تحميل كتاب الرياضيات للصف الاول ابتدائي الفصل الاول
ابحاث عن تاريخ الادب العربي
تحميل بحوث جامعية عن احدث الطرق الحديثة لتعليم المكفوفين القراءة والكتابة
انشودة تبكي فلسطينيه أنشودة بصوت طفله من بلاد فلسطين
تحميل برنامج الحماية الكمبيوتر كاسبر سكاي جديد 2010
كتاب شرح برنامج النيرو يقوم بنسخ الاسطوانات و السيديهات
خواتم
انشودة مشاري العفاسي اغيب انشودة جديدة 2010 وروعه
اخر اناشيد طيور الجنة 2010، Toyor Al Janna ، انشودة فرقة طيور الجنة 2010
احلي انشودة زوجتي الحبيبة 2010 اناشيد مباشرة اجمل اناشيد 2010
اكبر مكتبة فيديو في منتدي الغالي تلاوات القرأن ممتازه وجميله
دورة لتعلم المكياج.
أفكار تجنن لتوزيع الحلوه للمعازيم
فساتين أعراااااس
فساتين رووووعه
ملابس نوم
الحقو تعالي اعلمك كيف تسوين تسريحات قصات صبغات خيال لك ولبنتك ب
فساتين زفاف الاطفال
أغاني أعراس أغاني أفراح اكثر من 30 اغنيه للأعراس ، تحميل زفات اغاني دبكة زفة عرس وفرح
تجهيز العروس
زفات جديده و خاصه للعروس ، زفة أغاني عروس ، زفات افراح زفة خطوبه فرح بدون موسيقي عرس
مجموعة فساتين زفاف
موقع زفات عرس وفرح اغاني عروس ، زفات معرس ، زفات فرح ، زفات افراح ، زفات اعراس
للزفاف باللونين روووووعه
قمصان نوم رووووووعه
فساتين تجنن من جد
أجمل أحلى الماسكات للعرايس
فساتين زفاف 2010مميزه من فيتشو
ليلة الدخلة ، ليلة الزفاف ، ليلة الزواج ، ليلة العرس
: لكل عروس في ليلة زفافها
نصائح للمخطوبات
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منتدي الأسلامي -
قسم الاحاديث المكذوبة والموضوعه عن الرسول -
سيدنا - محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم
منتدى العام
مقاطع YouTube ، يوتيوب فيديو , Videos YouTube ،
جرائم وحوادث محلية وعالميه
منتدي النقاش - الحوار الجاد
منتدي الترحيب بالاعضاء و التهاني
التربية والتعليم - أبحاث - البحوث الدراسية
أبحاث جاهزة - بحوث كامله
أشعار - قصائد - شعر
ديوان الشعر خاصه للاعضاء الغالي
قصائد أشعار صوتيه
خواطر - خواطر رومانسية - خواطر منوعة
قسم بوح انامل الاعضاء
مملكة الأعـضـاء
الحكم والامثال
قصص - قصص واقعية - قصص حقيقيه
برامج كمبيوتر 2010 - تحميل برامج مجانية
برامج الحمايه وشروحاتها
الغالي تحميل برامج
توبيكات للماسنجر - صور مسنجر - رموز ماسنجر
العاب كمبيوتر - تحميل العاب
برامج جوال 2010 - نوكيا - العاب - نغمات - خلفيات
مقاطع فيديو مضحكة - مقاطع يوتيوب video
رسائل وسائط - وسائط mms - صور وسائط
مسجات جوال - رسائل حب - مسجات حب - رسائل رومانسية
الأسرة والمجتمع - الحياة الزوجية
عالم المراة - حواء
تجهيز العروس
تجهيز عروس - مكياج - فساتين - زفات - مسكات - كوشات - أغاني عرس
أزياء - فساتين - موضة - أكسسوارات - أناقة جمال
ادوات التجميل
العنايه بالبشره - كريمات - ماسكات - اقنعة
عالم الاطفال
صحه - طب - غذاء - رجيم - أعشاب
مطبخ - أكلات - معجنات - مقبلات - حلويات
ديكور - أثاث منزل - غرف نوم - اكسسوارات منزلية
اخبار الرياضة - كرة قدم - صور لاعبين
صور سيارات - سيارات 2010 - أخبار السيارات
عالم الرجال - ملابس رجالية - أزياء بدلات رجالية
برامج فوتوشوب - ملحقات تصاميم - دروس - فلاش
جريده خاصه لمنتديات الغالي
دورات تعليم الفوتو شوب
ابداعات وتصاميم الاعضاء
ادوات التجميل
صور - منتدي الصور
صور غريبة - صور مرعبة - صور مخيفه
صور من تصوير خاص بالاعضاء الغالي
السفر - السياحه - رحلات - دول - عواصم
نكت - ضحك - فرفشه - الغاز
مسابقات - العاب - تحدي
سيارات 2010
ملابس رجالية
دردشه كتابية خليجية عربية دردشة .
شات.
موقع صور|-
صور|
صور بنات|
صور اطفال|
mms|
MMS وسائط|
رسائل وسائط للعيد|
وسائط|
صور وسائط|
دردشة|
يوتيوب|
منتديات,
موقع العاب | برامج كمبيوتر |
دليل|
ابتسامات |
مسجات حب |
رسائل حب |
رسائل وسائط |
العاب كمبيوتر ||
تحميل العاب |
الصور |
عالم حواء |
ماسنجر |
الاسرة المسلمة |
ترجمة كلمات |
توبكات |
تحميل صور |
مطبخ موقع الغالي|
موقع مطبخ |
hguhf |
عصـــــــــير البرتقال مع الجزر عصير الكركديه والأناناس عصير كوكتيل صيفي الليمون بالنعناع شراب البطيخ عصير التوت(تونو) البينا كولادا ميلك شيك بالشيكولاته |
مطبخ موقع |
مشروبات|
الأطباق الرئيسية |
مكتبة برامج|
ابراج حمل برج الحمل الثور العقرب|
مقناص |
صور مكشات بري صور صيد صور مناظر طبيعيه تطعيس صور بريه |
مكشته - صيد |
مكشات |
مقناص صيد |
مقناص - كشته - صيد |
مقناص - كشته - صيد - قنص صور مكشات بري صور صيد صور مناظر طبيعيه تطعيس صور بريه |
صور صحراء البر الصيد صقور صور صقر صيد رمي شوزن قمري حمام غزلان طلعات بر |
تحميل الغالي|
قروب|
موقع تحميل الصور|
دردشة صوتية|
شات صوتي|
تحميل صور|
تحميل الغالي|
قروب|
اشتراك في قروب|
قروب الغالي|
محادثة صوتيه|
صوتية كام|

The comment above was posted by دليل مواقع at January 7, 2010 08:17 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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The comment above was posted by sohbet at January 13, 2010 03:03 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

الخفوق -
منتديات -
الدليل العالمي -
الدليل الاجنبي -
مدونة -
منتديات -
منتديات -
حوار و نقاش -
صحافة و أعلام -
منتدى أجنبي و لغات -
منتديات الاعضاء -
منتديات ابداع مميزة -
استقبال الاعضاء -
منتديات المجالس -
منتديات شعرية -
منتديات خواطر نثر -
منتديات قصص رويات -
منتديات ادبية شعر خواطر -
منتديات اجتماعية -
أدم -
حواء -
أزياء فاشون أناقة -
مكياج ميك اب صور مكياج -
طبخ طبخات -
ديكور أثاث خشبي زينة -
طب صحة لياقة رجيم -
منتديات ترفية -
صور -
نكت -
العاب -
رياضة -
كاركتير رسومات -
سيارات -
يوتيوب -
سفر سياحة -
جوالات -
رسائل جوال مسجات مو بايل -
برامج جوال برامج نوكيا بلاك بيري ايفون -
العاب موبايل -
ثيمات -
منتديات تقنية -
منتديات التقنية -
برامج -
ماسنجر msn ياهو سكايب -
توبيكات -
توبيكات حزينة -
توبيكات غزل -
توبيكات اغاني -
توبيكات رومنسية -
فوتوشوب -
دريم ويفر- فلاش - سويش -
صور فوتوشوب -
مواقع عربية -
مواقع بحرينية -
مواقع قطرية -
مواقع أمراتية -
مواقع عمانية -
مواقع عراقية -
مواقع سورية -
مواقع لبنانية -
مواقع اردنية -
مواقع مصرية -
مواقع عالمية -
مواقع جديدة -
مواقع مغربية -
مواقع سعودية -
مواقع كويتية -
sitemap -
Entertainment -
Science -
Home -
Arts -
Regional -
Health -
Recreation and Sports -
Games -
Sports -
Computers -
Education -
Business -
People -
News -
Kids and Teens -
Internet -
Government -
مدونة -
مدونة الخفوق -
مدونة اغاني -
مدونة صور -
مدونة مكياج -
مدونة فوتوشوب -
برامج مدونة برامج -
توبيكات توبك مدونة توبيكات -
دليل مواقع -
صور -
المرأة -
sitemap -
الخفوق -
ساعات -
توبيكات ماجد المهندس -
غرف بنات -
صنادل -
خلفيات وندوز 7 -
فوتوشوب -
برامج حماية -
توبيكات عشق حب -
توبيك غزل -
تحميل ريل بلير الجديد -
فاشون -
قصص الأنبياء -
أكسسوارت 2010 -
بودي شوب -
ساعات سواتش -
حمام الزيت -
القلب -
جوال أطفال -
الفصول الاربعه -
الخط الكوفي -
القلوب المنكسرة -
الحياة -
دهن العود -
امثال رائعه -
قوانين -
كولكشن شبابي -
تعلم الحب تعليم الحب -
افضل العطورات -
ساعات بولغري -
عارض ازياء -
ازياء شبابية -
تيشيرت شبابي -
نظارات -
فساتين سهرات -
مكياج -
فساتين سهرات -
رقص شرقي -
شفايف -
بجامات النوم -
معاني الأسماء -
أكسسوارات -
مكياج -
مجوهرات 2010 -
فساتين سهرات -
أساور -
عطورات غرف النوم -
شنط حقائب -
أكسسوارات جولات نسائية -
وصفة جمال -
أكسسوارت روعة -
مناكير -
تساريح مكياج -
مكياج ميك أب سعودي -
مكياج أخر موضة -
مقهى السيدات -
ايسكريم شوكلاته -
حلا قهوة -
رز -
افخاذ الدجاج -
الأفطار الفرنسي -
حلى ايسكريم السندوتشات -
محشي ساندوتش -
مثلجات القهوة -
مكرونة -
حلى قهوة -
اصابع كتكات -
ساندوتشات -
كباب دجاج -
حلى الجالاكسي -
ديكورات -
غرف نوم ايكيا -
غرف نوم ستايل -
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ثيمات -
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برامج -

ماسنجر -
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- sex -
sexy -
sex -
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Science -
Home -
Arts -
Regional -
Health -
Recreation and Sports -
Games -
Sports -
Computers -
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People -
News -
Kids and Teens -
Internet -
Government -


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The comment above was posted by klsdlkj at January 17, 2010 11:35 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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The comment above was posted by henrylow at January 29, 2010 01:35 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Affiliate Marketing is a performance based sales technique used by companies to expand their reach into the internet at low costs. This commission based program allows affiliate marketers to place ads on their websites or other advertising efforts such as email distribution in exchange for payment of a small commission when a sale results.
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The comment above was posted by abass at January 29, 2010 02:30 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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اسعار فنادق جدة|

جدة|

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جاكوار 2010 سيارات جاكور الجديد ، صور سيارات Jaguar 2010|

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شوفوا عربجه شباب أمريكا مع الداتسون ، سيارات داتسون America ...|

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The comment above was posted by دردشة at April 7, 2010 10:37 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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The comment above was posted by MBT Schuhe at April 7, 2010 02:11 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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The comment above was posted by Jenny at April 7, 2010 03:34 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

The comment above was posted by Article at April 12, 2010 02:29 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Today, the West is involved in a game of bear-baiting with China. China has been awarded the right to host the Olympic Games, about which it has worked itself into feverish excitement and so, correspondingly, the West is in the process of humiliating China, with the Tibet issue being the West's most effective stick. It is daring China to respond, knowing that China won't because it does not want to risk a boycott of the Games. China is like a tethered bear.

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The comment above was posted by Florida at April 12, 2010 08:33 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

One of the 14 lawyers who launched the case told the newspaper Cafferty's remarks "seriously violated and abused the reputation and dignity of the plaintiffs as Chinese people, and caused serious spiritual and psychological injury to the plaintiffs."

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The comment above was posted by Florida at April 12, 2010 09:58 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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The comment above was posted by youtube at April 12, 2010 10:43 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Over the last couple of weeks,Kalil-Elyos,Aion Epic,Nerthus-Elyos, Aion has heard your feedback that the experience curve can be steep in certain levels of Aion and aion has been evaluating how we want to address this issue to provide for smoother character progression. As part of that process,Aion Weapon, we are implementing a temporary enhancement so that you can feel immediate benefits that we are really excited to be rolling out this weekend.
Aion is adding a few permanent benefits with this week’s patch. Soul Healing will be less expensive for characters of all aion powerleveling levels,Zikel-Elyos,Buy Aion CD Key, and we’re increasing the experience bonus that Energy of Repose bestows for levels 20–44. So you will not waste much aion kinah.

The comment above was posted by aion kinah at April 13, 2010 11:12 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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Victory Vegas Low Adult Dual Suspension Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels |
Olpran Tomahawk 22 Mountain Bike 2008 Aluminum |
Schwinn Rocket Comp Adult Dual Suspension Mountain Bike 20 Inch Frame |
Schwinn Solution FS AL Mens Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels 20 Inch Large Frame |
Schwinn Solution GSD Mens Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels 20 Inch Frame |
Womens Schwinn Dual Suspension Bike 26 SX 2000 |
Schwinn Solution GSD Mens Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels Medium |
Titan Glacier Unisex 21 speed Mountain Bike 26 |
Mantis Raptor Mens 26 Inch Bike Red Black |
Men s Forge Sawback Hard Tail 5xx Mountain Bike Matte Blue 19 |
Pacific Traverse Women s Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels |
Mongoose Maxim Dual Suspension Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels Red |
Diamondback Womens Lux X Small 13 inch |
Huffy Suspension Ladies Cyclone 26 Inch Bike |
Bike USA Titan Pathfinder Men s 18 Speed ATB |
Mongoose Pro Wing Comp Dual Suspension Mountain Bike 16 Inch Frame |
Schwinn Delta Sport Dual Suspension Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels Medium |
Bike USA Titan Trailblazer 21 Speed Ladies Hardtail ATB |
Polaris 450MXR 26 Men s Full Suspension Mountain Bike |
Olpran Tomahawk 18 Mountain Bike 2008 Aluminum |
Schwinn Delta Sport Dual Suspension Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels Medium |
Ladies Mongoose Woodland Wired alloy pearl Mountain Bike 26 |
Columbia Trailhead Sport 26 Women s Front Suspension Mountain Bike |
Schwinn Delta Sport Dual Suspension Mountain Bike Medium |
K2 Men s Zed 2.2 Hardtail Mountain Mountain Bike Dark Green 19.5 Inch Frame |
Barracuda A2Z Aluminum ATB Mountain Bike |
Bestco Folding Bike 24 wheels 3 Speeds Red or Silver |
Diamondback Lux Women s Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels Mirror Green XX Small 13 Inch |
Victory Vegas Jackpot Adult Dual Suspension Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels |
Cadillac MDS 2.4 Men s Mountain Bike Black Burnt Orange Finish 19 Inch |
Diamondback Sorrento Sport Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels Navy Medium 18 Inch |
Olpran Extreme 18 Mountain Bike 2008 Aluminum |
Mountain Bike Silver Blue Shimano Dual Suspension 18 Speed 26 Inch |
GMC Hummer DH26 26in Mountain Bicycle Color Black |
Mountain Bike Black White Shimano Dual Suspension 18 Speed 26 Inch |
Mongoose Incline 26 Women s Full Suspension Mountain Bike |
Mountain Bike Black Red Shimano Dual Suspension 18 Speed 26 Inch |
Schwinn Mesa GS Adult Mountain Bike 16 Inch Frame |
Schwinn Fracas Men s Mountain Bike 26 Inch Wheels |
Mountain Bike Black Shimano Dual Suspension 18 Speed 26 Inch |
Montague MX Mountain Bike 18 |
Titan Womens Pioneer Mountain Bike |

The comment above was posted by Hennry at April 23, 2010 12:44 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Strathwood St. Thomas Cast Aluminum Swivel Dining Arm Chair with Cushion Set of Two |
Strathwood St. Thomas Cast Aluminum Dining Arm Chair with Cushion Set of 2 |
Strathwood St. Thomas Cast Aluminum Chaise Lounge with Cushion |
Strathwood Falkner 32 Inch Bar Table |
Strathwood St. Thomas Cast Aluminum 2 Seater Loveseat with Cushion |
Strathwood St. Thomas Cast Aluminum Round Dining Table |
Strathwood St. Thomas Cast Aluminum Side Table with Ice Bucket |
Strathwood Camano All Weather Wicker and Teak Bar Table |
Strathwood Falkner Dining Collection Side Chair With Cushion 2 Pack |
Strathwood Sheffield Stackable Dining Chair Set of 2 Amazon Frustration Free Packaging |
Strathwood Falkner Lounge Coffee Table |
Strathwood Falkner Lounge Deep Seat Arm Chair Set of 2 |
Strathwood Falkner Dining Table with Umbrella Hole 72 Inches |
Strathwood Balboa Deep Seat Corner Chair with Cushion |
Strathwood Balboa Deep Seat Chaise with Cushion |
Strathwood Balboa Deep Seat Armless Chair with Cushion |
Strathwood Camano All Weather Wicker Storage Box |
Strathwood Balboa Deep Seat Ottoman with Cushion |
Strathwood Falkner Chaise Lounge |
Strathwood Falkner Dining Chairs with Arms 2 Pack |
Strathwood Sheffield Dining Stackable Armchair Set of 2 Amazon Frustration Free Packaging |
Strathwood Cypress All Weather Wicker Bistro Chair With Cushion Brown |
Strathwood Camano All Weather Wicker Coffee Table |
Strathwood Camano All Weather Wicker Arm Chair With Cushion |
Strathwood Camano All Weather Wicker Sofa |

The comment above was posted by Hennry at May 8, 2010 02:48 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.


المنتدى العام
-
المنتدى الاسلامي
-
منتدى الضيافه والاهداءات
-
منتدى الكمبيوتر والانترنت
-
منتدى العلوم و التكنولوجيا
- عالم
حواء
-
الديكور والاثاث
-
منتدى المطبخ والسفره الخليجيه والعربيه
-
منتدى الطب العام
-
منتدى الجوال والاتصالات
-
منتدى الماسنجر
-
منتدى التصاميم والجرافيكس
-
منتدى الرياضه العربيه والعالميه
-
منتدى الألعاب و الألغاز
-
عالم آدم
-
منتدى الصور والكاريكاتير
-

الخيمة الرمضانية
-
المنتدى الأدبي
-
مشاكل الأعضاء وحلولها
-
منتدى القصص والروايات
-
منتدى السياحة والسفر
-
منتدى الصوتيات و المرئيات
-
منتدى النكت و الضحك و الفرفشة
-
منتدى اللغات Languages forum
- قسم
المسابقات
-
منتدى البرامج المشروحة
-
منتدى تجارب الأعضاء
-
منتدى تجارب المراقبين
-
اخبار اليوم 1431 - اخبار الساعة 2010 - اخبار الصحف 1431- اخبار محلية - اخبار
عالمية - اخبار الطقس
-
عبث الكاميرا
-
الركن الهادئ
-
عالم الحياة الزوجية
-
التطوير الذاتي
-
عالم الفضائيات
-
يوميات الأعضاء في رمضان
-
المنتدى التعليمي
- عذب
الكلام
-
هامش زوار الركن الهادي
- قسم
الأخبار اليومية
-
قسم الأهداف
- قسم
دروس الفوتوشوب
-
المرحلة الابتدائية
-
المرحلة المتوسطة
-
المرحلة الثانوية
- كرسي
الإعتراف
-
منتدى الانمي
-
وظائف 2010, وظائف رجاليه 1431, وظائف نسائيه 1431 , وظائف حكوميه 1431 , وظائف
جديدة 1431
-
كاس العالم 2010 , اهداف كاس العالم
2010 , مباريات كاس العالم 2010 , مباريات كاملة
-
سيارات 2010 - سيارات 2011

شبكة ترانيم الأمل
مشاهده
وظائف
صور
فيسات للمسن
منتديات
منتدى
2011
2010
1431
1432
مباراة
اهداف
برنامج
يوتيوب
للمسن
تحميل
انشودة
صورة
جريدة
كاس العالم 2010

مشاهده وظائف صور فيسات للمسن منتديات منتدى 2011 2010 1431 1432 مباراة اهداف برنامج يوتيوب للمسن تحميل انشودة صورة

The comment above was posted by alasiri at May 14, 2010 01:40 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Carolina Custom Upholsery 63 AP BGS Ant. Ivory Essex Chair with Upholstered Bromley Green Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 63 AP BRS Ant. Ivory Essex Chair with Upholstered Bromley Red Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 63 AP BS Ant. Ivory Essex Chair with Upholstered Black and White Pillow Ticking Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 63 AP TC Ant. Ivory Essex Chair with Upholstered Tan Chenille Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 976 AB BBS Ant. Black Prairie Chair with Black and White Pillow Ticking Upholstered Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 976 AB BBS Ant. Black Prairie Chair with Bromley Blue Stripe Upholstered Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 976 AB BBS Ant. Black Prairie Chair with Bromley Red Stripe Upholstered Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 976 AB BBS Ant. Black Prairie Chair with Tan Chenille Upholstered Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 976 AB BGS Ant. Black Prairie Chair with Bromley Green Stripe Upholstered Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 976 AP BBS Ant. Ivory Prairie Chair with Black and White Pillow Ticking Upholstered Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 976 AP BBS Ant. Ivory Prairie Chair with Bromley Blue Stripe Upholstered Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 976 AP BBS Ant. Ivory Prairie Chair with Bromley Red Stripe Upholstered Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 976 AP BBS Ant. Ivory Prairie Chair with Tan Chenille Upholstered Seat |
Carolina Custom Upholsery 976 AP BGS Ant. Ivory Prairie Chair with Bromley Green Stripe Upholstered Seat |
Diamond Sofa Zen Collection All Leather Tufted Seat Square Corner Chair Black |
Diamond Sofa Zen Collection All Leather Tufted Seat Square Corner Chair White |
Diamond Sofa Zen Collection Armless All Leather Tufted Seat Chair White |
DreamSeat Dallas Cowboys NFL Leather Recliner |
Ferdinand Furniture Terisi Accent Chair |
Ferdinand Furniture Urban Accent Chair |
Ferdinand Furniture Valencia Accent Chair |
Florida State Seminoles Oniva Seat |
Georgia Bulldogs Oniva Seat |
Handy Living Fremont Chair and Ottoman Dark Moss |
Handy Living Halsted Make a Wish Chair |
Interlocking Diplay Kit |
International Concepts 1CC 2465 Boston Rocker Unfinished |
Klaussner Biltmore Chair |
Klaussner Bingley Chair |
Klaussner Brighton Royale Chair Sleeper |
Klaussner Coaster Chair |
Klaussner Comfy Chair |
Klaussner Dopler Dreamquest Chair Sleeper |
Klaussner Dopler Royale Chair Sleeper |
Klaussner Fifi Chair |
Klaussner Gabby High Leg Reclining Chair Darkbrown |
Klaussner Gabby High Leg Reclining Chair Walnut |
Klaussner Homestead Chair |
Klaussner Jacobs Chair |
Klaussner Jenny Down Blend Chair |
Klaussner Jolly Chair |
Klaussner Lancaster Occasional Chair 1 |
Klaussner Malibu Chair Desert |
Klaussner Malibu Chair Chocolate |
Klaussner Marshall Chair Charcoal |
Klaussner Master Chair |
Klaussner Posen Chair |
Klaussner Replay Power Reclining Chair |
Klaussner Replay Reclining Rocking Chair |
Klaussner Rugby Reclining Rocking Chair Tobacco |
Klaussner Sackett Chair |
Klaussner Sackett Leather Chair |
Klaussner Shellburne Swivel Gliding Reclining Chair Camel |
Klaussner Sound Chair Strawberry |
Klaussner Sound Reclining Chair Black |
Klaussner Sound Reclining Chair Grey |
Klaussner Stuart Chair |
Klaussner Title Occasional Chair |
Klaussner Trafalgar Chair |
Klaussner Vaughn Chair |
LSU Tigers Oniva Seat |
LumiSource Lunar Lounger Red |
LumiSource Lux Chair Black |
Mac Motion Chairs Model 2 Piece Recliner with Matching Ottoman Black Bonded Leather with Natural Frame |
Mac Motion Chairs Model 2 Piece Recliner with Matching Ottoman Black Leather with Merlot Frame |
Michael Lynn Designs Long Beach Accent Chair |
Michael Lynn Designs Oaksdale Accent Chair |
Natural Spiral Heavenly Chair in Glacier Microsuede |
Natural Spiral Heavenly Chair in Natural Twill |
New Pacific Direct Manila Chair Mahogany |
New Pacific Direct Monaco Living Chair Natural |
North Carolina Tar Heels Oniva Seat |
Ohio State Buckeyes Oniva Seat |
Pinzon Ellis Leather Armless Chair Chocolate |
Pinzon Ellis Velvet Armless Chair Sage |
Pinzon Galen Velvet Parisian Chair Sage |
Pinzon Hardwood Lounge Chair with Sand Polyblend Upholstery Java |
Pinzon Hawthorne Velvet Chair Sage |
Pinzon Lombardy Velvet Club Chair Sage |
Powell Alexandria Scroll Back Accent Chair with Leaf Pattern Fabric |
Powell Belvedere Upholstered French Lounge Chair Walnut Mauve |
Powell Jamestown Landing Game Chair |
Powell Kilarney Scroll Accent Chair 20 1 2 Seat Height |
Powell Metro Black Accent Chair with White Onyx Tiger Striped Fabric |
Powell Oval Back Accent Chair |
Powell Salzburg Scroll Back Accent Chair Umber Black Rub Through |
Simmons Upholstery 6298R Recliner Brown |
South Carolina Gamecocks Oniva Seat |
Tennessee Volunteers Oniva Seat |
Texas A M Aggies Oniva Seat |
Texas Longhorns Oniva Seat |
Uttermost Amani Armchair 32.5 Inches by 30 Inches by 37 Inches Tall |
Uttermost Kimoni Armchair 33.5 Inches by 30.5 Inches by 42.75 Inches Tall |
Uttermost Nia Corner Chair 25 Inches by 25 Inches by 37 Inches Tall |
Yield 30 Wide Chair Black |
Zuo Beachwood Armchair Tan weave Espresso cushion |
Zuo Beachwood Corner Tan weave Espresso cushion |
Zuo Beachwood Middle Tan weave Espresso cushion |
Zuo Beachwood Table Tan weave |
Zuo Syracuse loveseat |
Acme Sage Microfiber Recliner |
Skyline Furniture Uptown Armless Chair in Pewter Velvet |
Pinzon Brittan Armless Chair Grass |
Michael Lynn Designs Chelan Accent Chair |
Pinzon Guilford Armchair Chocolate |
Pinzon Capitola Armchair |
Pinzon Capitola Furniture Collection |
Pinzon Crescent Bay Armchair Stripe |
Pinzon Doncaster Armchair |
Pinzon Egan Rocker |
Pinzon Ellington Armchair Espresso |
Pinzon Ellington Furniture Collection |
Pinzon Hillsboro Armchair Iroquois Fawn |
Pinzon Hillsboro Furniture Collection |
Pinzon Seacrest Armless Chair Navy |

The comment above was posted by Jenny123 at May 17, 2010 12:31 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

المنتدى العام
-
المنتدى الاسلامي
-
منتدى الضيافه والاهداءات
-
منتدى الكمبيوتر والانترنت
-
منتدى العلوم و التكنولوجيا
- عالم
حواء
-
الديكور والاثاث
-
منتدى المطبخ والسفره الخليجيه والعربيه
-
منتدى الطب العام
-
منتدى الجوال والاتصالات
-
منتدى الماسنجر
-
منتدى التصاميم والجرافيكس
-
منتدى الرياضه العربيه والعالميه
-
منتدى الألعاب و الألغاز
-
عالم آدم
-
منتدى الصور والكاريكاتير
-

الخيمة الرمضانية
-
المنتدى الأدبي
-
مشاكل الأعضاء وحلولها
-
منتدى القصص والروايات
-
منتدى السياحة والسفر
-
منتدى الصوتيات و المرئيات
-
منتدى النكت و الضحك و الفرفشة
-
منتدى اللغات Languages forum
- قسم
المسابقات
-
منتدى البرامج المشروحة
-
منتدى تجارب الأعضاء
-
منتدى تجارب المراقبين
-
اخبار اليوم 1431 - اخبار الساعة 2010 - اخبار الصحف 1431- اخبار محلية - اخبار
عالمية - اخبار الطقس
-
عبث الكاميرا
-
الركن الهادئ
-
عالم الحياة الزوجية
-
التطوير الذاتي
-
عالم الفضائيات
-
يوميات الأعضاء في رمضان
-
المنتدى التعليمي
- عذب
الكلام
-
هامش زوار الركن الهادي
- قسم
الأخبار اليومية
-
قسم الأهداف
- قسم
دروس الفوتوشوب
-
المرحلة الابتدائية
-
المرحلة المتوسطة
-
المرحلة الثانوية
- كرسي
الإعتراف
-
منتدى الانمي
-
وظائف 2010, وظائف رجاليه 1431, وظائف نسائيه 1431 , وظائف حكوميه 1431 , وظائف
جديدة 1431
-
كاس العالم 2010 , اهداف كاس العالم
2010 , مباريات كاس العالم 2010 , مباريات كاملة
-
سيارات 2010 - سيارات 2011

شبكة ترانيم الأمل
مشاهده
وظائف
صور
فيسات للمسن
منتديات
منتدى
2011
2010
1431
1432
مباراة
اهداف
برنامج
يوتيوب
للمسن
تحميل
انشودة
صورة
جريدة
كاس العالم 2010
تصاميم
تصميم
تصاميم 2011
تواقيع
تواقيع 2011
صور 2011
برامج
وسائط
وسائط رومانسيه
وسائط حب
وسائط عتاب
وسائط فراق
مسجات
مسجات رومانسيه
مسجات حب
مسجات عتاب
مسجات فراق
رسائل
رسائل رومانسيه
رسائل حب
رسائل عتاب
رسائل فراق
mms
خلفيات بلاك بيري
ثيمات
خلفيات بلاك بيري 2011
ثيمات 2011
روايات للجوال
روايات رومانسيه
روايات طويله
روايات 2011
HotSpot Shield
HotSpot Shield 2010
HotSpot Shield 2011

crack ,
serial ,
key ,
keygen ,
patch ,
username ,
password ,
كراك ,
سريال ,
كيجن ,
باتش ,
مفتاح ,
يوزر ,
باسوورد 


مشاهده
لعبة الأنابيب
لعبة السرعة لعبة
أعصاب

لغز التقطيع
 مركز
تحميل الصور

فيسات للمسن والمنتدى

دليل المواقع
لعبة اكس او | X O
Game

العاب فلاشية
توبيكات ملونه ,
توبيكات شعريه ,
سمايلات ,
فيسات ,
سمايلات للمسن ,
سكربتات
توبيكات رومانسية
توبيكات عتاب
توبيكات ملونه 2011
توبيكات زعل
توبيكات 2011
ديكورات
ديكورات 2011
نشيد
زفات
زفات 2011
زفات شعريه
زفات جديدة
زفات راشد الماجد
زفات بدون موسيقى
بدون موسيقى
اغاني بدون موسيقى
ملخص مباراة
اهداف مباراة
لقطة
مقطع
صور رومانسية
اهداف برشلونه
اهداف ريال مدريد  -
كاس العالم 2010 ,
اهداف كاس العالم 2010 ,
مباريات كاس العالم 2010 ,
مباريات كاملة

اهداف كاس
العالم 2010
, مباريات كاس
العالم 2010
, مباريات كاملة
, مباراة كاملة ,
اهداف ,
ملخصات ,
ملخص ,
جدول ,
اوقات ,
مواعيد ,مباريات
ودية
, مباريات تحضيرية ,
اخبار كاس العالم 2010 ,
هولندا ,
إنجلترا ,
إسبانيا ,
ألمانيا ,
الدنمارك ,
صربيا ,
إيطاليا ,
سويسرا ,
سلوفاكيا ,
اليونان ,
سلوفينيا ,
البرتغال ,
فرنــسا ,
اليابان ,
أستراليا ,
الجنوبية ,
كوريا الشمالية
, جنوب أفريقيا
, غانا ,
كوت دي فوار ,
ساحل العاج ,
نيجيريا ,
الكاميرون ,
الجزائـر ,
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تشيلي ,
الأرجنتين ,
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المكسيك ,
امريكا ,
هيندوراس ,
نيوزيلانــد
- مسلسل طاش 17 الحلقة -
طاش 17 الحلقة -
طاش ماطاش 17 الحلقة -

حلقات طاش 17

 طريقة عمل ,
طريقة صنع ,
شرح برنامج ,



 





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دردشة لذة الشوق
مركز تحميل الصور
- إبتسامات
وايقونات
-
دليل المواقع



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وظائف


صور



فيسات للمسن


منتديات


منتدى



2011



2010



1431


1432


مباراة


اهداف


برنامج


يوتيوب


للمسن


تحميل


انشودة


صورة


الهلال


النصر


الاتحاد


الاهلي


اهداف الهلال


اهداف النصر


اهداف الاتحاد


اهداف الاهلي


اهداف مباراة


دوري زين


الدوري الاسباني


الدوري الايطالي


الدوري الانجليزي


دوري ابطال اوروبا


بث مباشر


رابط نقل


كاس اسيا 2011


اهداف ميسي 2010


اهداف ميسي 2011

The comment above was posted by منتديات at May 25, 2010 09:39 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

The comment above was posted by asdf at June 2, 2010 11:10 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.




منتديات منتدانا ..يوجد بة العديد من المنتديات الفرعية ومنتديات رئيسية رائعة مثل

استضافة مواقع

عروض استضافة مواقع و منتديات وخدمات للمواقع باقل الاسعار وبخدمات مجانية يصعب تواجدها فى استضافة اخرى بدون مقابل

دعم المواقع

دعم المواقع و جميع الاعدادات والمجلات والاستايلات واكواد الجافا والقوالب وكل شىء يحتاجة موقعك

 برامج حماية

احدث برامج حماية للتخلص من الفيروسات وملفات التجسس والتروجان وجميع انواع الملفات والفيروسات الضارة لجهازك الشخصى

 برامج النت

جميع برامج النت من برامج مسنجر وبرامج محادثة وجميع البرامج المهمة فى استخدام شبكة الانترنت

 برامج محمولة

برامج محمولة لا تحتاج تصطيبها على جهازك وجاهزة للتشغيل portable programs

 برامج نوكيا

برامج نوكيا , شرح البرامج , شرح مصور , شرح بالصور , شرح استخدام البرامج , برامج الجوالات

 العاب نوكيا

العاب نوكيا, العاب الجوال, العاب موبايل, احدث الالعاب

العاب كمبيوتر

تحميل العاب كمبيوتر و تنزيل الالعاب و مواقع الالعاب و الالعاب المجانيه و العاب الفلاش و العاب القتال

 العاب بلاي ستيشن

العاب بلاى ستيشن play station games

 العاب تورنت

العاب تورنت صغيرة الحجم torrent games

 افلام كرتون

افلام كرتون مثل توم وجيري عدنان ولينا و علاء الدين وزورو و الجاسوسات و مدرسة الكونغ فو وغيرها من افلام الكرتون الممتعة والكاملة

العاب اطفال

العاب اطفال جديدة للبنات و الصبايا و الصبيان , متعة و مرح

 صور كرتون

صور كرتون للاشهر الشخصيات الكرتونية

اغاني اطفال

احدث اغانى اطفال المطروحة فى الافلام الكرتونية والبرامج المتوعة عربية او اجنبية kids songs/ cartoon songs / children songs

استضافة منتديات

استضافة منتديات وخدمات للمواقع باقل الاسعار وبخدمات مجانية

صور رعب

صور رعب , صور مرعبة جدا, اجدد صور الرعب للكبار فقط

لايت سى

تحميل برنامج لايت سى برابط مباشر شغال 100/100

اضف موقعك

اضف موقعك في دليل المواقع

العاب باربى

العاب باربى والعاب سيارات

 

 

The comment above was posted by host at June 13, 2010 07:15 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

thanksss.
chat

The comment above was posted by chat at June 14, 2010 10:09 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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