From crikey.com

3 . The torch waits quietly for its moment in the Canberra sun

Bernard Keane writes:

The Olympic Torch is currently resting comfortably in a Canberra hotel after its flight from Jakarta. That’s more than you’ll be able to say for Canberrans tomorrow morning, given torch relay organisers have cleverly designed the route to ensure the maximum number of workers in the Parliamentary triangle and what passes for the CBD in these parts will be blocked or delayed from reaching their workplaces. Canberrans have been told to get to work by 8.15am. Prepare for a Public Service-wide productivity surge tomorrow.

You have to hand it to the Keystone Cops of the AFP. Given plenty of encouragement to lock the place down and handed $2m to waste, they’ve erected kilometres and kilometres of metal barricades. There are literally tens of thousands of these things lining central Canberra at the moment, and some fencing contractor must have struck it filthy rich.

The AFP have also inexplicably "closed" Lake Burley Griffin for most of tomorrow. While this will doubtless prevent the planned marine assault by the Royal Tibetan Navy, it has infuriated businesses that make their living from running cruises and, one assumes, that mob who rent out those pedal boats that are compulsory experiences for any tourists enjoying our fine city.

And it’s not too late for yet another twist in the saga of the flame attendants, whom John Coates revealed today wouldn’t be staying on the bus but would be running alongside the torch – all the better to throw their bodies around it, as the Chinese Ambassador suggested last night, although he later claimed he’d been "misrepresented", presumably by his own mouth, since that’s exactly what he said. Not to worry, though, because he’s taken the precaution of bussing in Chinese students to run their own interference with anyone daring to protest.

China’s Foreign Ministry have warned against protests in Canberra because the torch "belongs to the whole world". That the corrupt thugs who run China (latest effort – dispatching a boatload of weapons to fellow despot Bob Mugabe) object to expressions of dissent even in other countries is no surprise. But let’s get over this fetishisation of the Olympics.

Year after year the same faces, the Kevin Gospers and John Coateses who are apparently on the Olympics gravy train for life, stand up to declare that it’s all about the sport, or world peace, or the youth of the world. In fact it’s a giant media event designed to generate massive revenue which, this time around, is being employed to promote one of the world’s most brutal regimes.

And you can see where these sports administrators come from. Just about every athlete or sports person parrots the same lines about sport having nothing to do with politics or, for that matter, morality, as if sports – professional, international sport, in all its cash-generating glory – is somehow a priori disconnected from basic ethics and standards of civilized behaviour.

For those planning to have a crack at disrupting the relay, or who just want to marvel at some wonderful security overkill, the event kicks off at 8.30am tomorrow morning.

The location? Reconciliation Place. That’s Olympian-level irony.

Actually, we do hear from ordinary Tibetans a fair bit, even though there are no Gallup-style polls. So Backman is being a tiny bit disingenuous.

Why do you say "anti-China" protestors? I'll be going to Canberra to demonstrate tomorrow but I'm not anti-China. That's llike the Republicans calling the Democrats anti-American. You can believe in a more just and free society with being anti-China.

hey James,

i think your boyfriend was the same coward/pussy who attacked the handicapped girl in the wheel chair in Paris right?? and i bet your dad is jack cafferty, ugly beast looks runs in the family.

honestly, why is tibet such a big deal? seriously i dont get it. other people are dying in the world, in the millions but no one cares about them?

oh i guess its ok bc when white people kill brown people, its called war on terrorism, self defense, and collateral damage. but any other time, its called genocide and human rights abuses.

pro tibetans activists are cowards, go grow some balls and brains.

white people are such hypocrites, they cherry pick their human rights victims.

Al Shaprton for President yo!

What a refreshing read this Michael Backman makes - it makes a change to hear from someone who may know what he's talking about, rather than some jumped-up free tibet campaigners - good find Michael, hope Beijing is treating you well babe, loads a love Zxx

The following two articles make some good points about how hypocritical the western media has been in regard to human rights.

The Hypocrisy and Danger of Anti-China Demonstrations

US Won’t Get a Gold Medal for Human Rights

IMO, most of these demonstrations are political theater in which protesters are being used to advance interests they don't even understand.

I think someone has fallen in to the trap of "If you say anything not really nice about China, you are anti-China." This is a great way to look at today's world. It gives you hatred and anger.

My apology to Jack Cafferty and CNN

I think Jack Cafferty is basically the same goon and thug he has been for the last 50 years. He behaved exactly like such a goon and thug on April 9 when he faked as a commentator during a junky show on poisonous CNN.

I am aware of concerns about my comments related to Jack Cafferty and CNN in the context of his foregone stupid mouth exercise and CNN’s circus shows, which I just made a moment ago.

I would like to clarify that it was not my intent to cause offense to Jack Cafferty and CNN, and would apologize to anyone who has interpreted the comments in this way.

I am a person that reports the news in an objective and balanced fashion. However, as part of my coverage I also employ myself as a commentator who provides robust opinions that generate debate.

On this occasion I was offering my strongly held opinion of Jack Cafferty and CNN, not the American people, not all US news organizations – a point I am clarifying immediately after I made the comments.

It should be noted that over many years, I have expressed critical comments on many people and many news organizations, including the American people and its leaders, and American news organizations and their managers.

I have a problem with this statement:

"His basic argument is that the West, having invited China onto the world stage as a reward for immense progress in recent decades, is now busy embarrassing China for the work that still needs to be done."

The West isn't a single entity. To say that "the West" has been rewarding China, and that "the West" is embarrassing China, is absolutely wrongheaded and foolish. If many Chinese people can't understand the simple concept of individuality, then they can have fun in their backwards, corrupt, authoritarian tyranny for the rest of human history.

@kangeroo, you are no doubt the kind of goon and thug Cafferty was referring to. I used to have some sympathy for China (yeah, I know, you couldn't care less, fine). But seeing how you and your fellow young Chinese nationalist goons and thugs react to any criticism of your precious Hua-land, I am really fed up. Anyone who can read Chinese knows what I'm talking about, all the young Chinese punk goons and thugs posting their poison all over the internet. To hell with you, you pathetic tools! Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "coward/pussy/hypocrite/beast/ball-less", etc.

You are no better than the American Bushbots, maybe worse, at least they don't take every single criticism as some kind of assault on America's national sovereignty...trying to discuss anything rationally with most Chinese (with their stupid, mindless obsession with "face") is a waste of time.

You are right, Michael, "china.notspecial.org" indeed! Next time I hear another Chinese spout that garbage about "China is different! China is special!" I'm gonna puke all over his shoes!

"If many Chinese people can't understand the simple concept of individuality, then they can have fun in their backwards, corrupt, authoritarian tyranny for the rest of human history."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtFVQe4JRmA

Here is example East vs West. Obviously West will die-hard believe themself superior and righteous. East just is just inferior no matter what.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtFVQe4JRmA

Wait minutes, East Human is absolutely no different from West. There is no racial difference. Only one standard apply to all human. It got be western standard. (Bunch of liberal political correct bullshit)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtFVQe4JRmA

Amazing, culture difference even in insects.

East=collectivsm.
West=individualism.

I will not pass judgment which is better. But it is product of enviroment. One govement system or managment style of coporation which works well in one population might be disaster for another. Neocons export of democracy is one perfect example.

hey photog,

you are a stereotypical westerner who has been to china few times, thinks he knows everything about Chinese people/culture

ok first, im not Chinese, im korean, why do westerners always assume when someone is sticking up for china and is anti western, they are automatically Chinese? westerners are so damn arrogant, they think everyone loves them, and anyone who doesnt, is some corrupt authoritarian pawn from china.

travel the world photog, you're hated, its not just chinese who hate you, everyone does.

photog, why dont you go protest for some real crimes, like the ones your family are committing in iraq, afghanistan, the west bank, gaza, colombia.

@kangeroo. Why don t yu have some balls then and go and protest in North korea smart arse.

@kangeroo, "travel the world photog, you're hated, its not just chinese who hate you, everyone does"

And the Olympic torch run shows how much the world loves China. As far as knowing about China is concerned, you have no idea what I know, you only deal in stereotypes...I know too much about China and I'm doing my best to forget it.

So you're a foul-mouth Korean punk instead of a Chinese. Big deal. I wish you could enjoy living under the wonderful CCP, or even better, the "Dear Leader" Kim Jong-il. So much better than the evil west, I'm sure.

3 . Torch watch: Chinese out in force; others stay away

Canberra correspondent Bernard Keane writes:

The Olympic Torch Relay got underway in Canberra this morning amid massive security and a major display of Chinese nationalism from the thousands of students bussed in for the event.

The official torch lighting ceremony itself was a rather lacklustre affair. Either there were massive withdrawals from the guest list or organisers vastly over-catered on chairs, leaving the smoking ceremony, national anthems and sundry speeches to be performed in front of rows and rows of empty seats. Crowds were kept fifty-odd metres away behind barricades.

Most Chinese students -- the majority carrying or wearing flags, and frequently directed by marshals in white t-shirts -- were more interested in chanting at and berating anti-China protestors, with at least one being arrested when he tried to jump the barricade to get at Tibetan independence supporters who were marching along the back of Reconciliation Place. Only a booming rendition of the Chinese national anthem got their attention briefly back to proceedings.

The occasional individual who advanced into the students clutching a Free Tibet placard was met with what appeared to be a prepared tactic of being surrounded by large Chinese flags. Otherwise, the two sides were kept well separated by the AFP. The infamous torch attendants - one of whom was reportedly later manhandled by a zealous AFP officer - kept a low profile, with only two joining in the vast throng of police officers surrounding the torch as it set off around Canberra. First stop was a trip across Lake Burley Griffin from the back of the ceremony venue - escorted by a small armada of police boats.

Despite it being clear for weeks that Chinese students, most likely organised by the Chinese Embassy, were flocking to Canberra for the event, organiser Ted Quinlan admitted today they hadn’t been prepared for it, expressing surprise at "a well-coordinated plan to take the day by weight of numbers." It was well-coordinated, and it was a huge success. You don’t have to go to China to see Chinese nationalism at work. Our capital city will do just fine.

Send your tips to boss@crikey.com.au , submit them anonymously here or SMS tips and photos to 0427 TIP OFF.

From crikey.com

11 . Australian sensitivity singles out the Yellow Peril
Jeff Sparrow writes:

In 1908, when the US navy docked in Australia, Prime Minister Deakin hailed the coming of the "Great White Fleet".

“The visit of the United States fleet is,” he explained, “universally popular here … because of our distrust of the Yellow Race in the North Pacific and our recognition of the ‘entente cordiale’ spreading among all white men who realise the Yellow Peril to Caucasian civilization, creeds and politics.”

White men with guns seem naturally reassuring to the psyche of a colonial settler state nestled in the midst of Asia. The armed yellow man induces quite a different effect. Compare the response to the Chinese torch attendants with the reaction to the personal army that George Bush brought to Sydney not so long ago.

Extraordinarily, Australian authorities have publicly threatened the Chinese security detachment – a busload of tracksuited men – with arrest if they lay so much as an Oriental finger on any Aussies.

Do you recall any similar official warnings directed to the US security posse?

Bush’s minders, of course, consisted not of a single bus but 150 national security advisers, 250 Secret Service agents, 200 public servants, 50 political aides, 15 sniffer dog teams, five chefs, six planes, a helicopter, limousines, Secret Service wagons, VIP guest vans and an ambulance.

His men were armed to the teeth and they casually took charge of the city without any governmental protestations about Australian control.

Yes, China is a vicious dictatorship. Yes, the Tibetan people and their protests deserve support. The complaints about demonstrations politicising the Olympics are nonsense. The Games are always political: that’s why China’s murderous gerontocracy wants to host them.

Yet one still feels a certain sympathy for the Chinese community and their resentment about being unfairly singled out.

Australians traditionally show a peculiar sensitivity to injustices committed by foreigners. The French found outrage about their nuclear testing a little hard to take, given Australia’s enthusiasm for uranium mining, just as the Japanese detect a certain hypocrisy in the sensitivity to whaling by a nation cheerfully gunning down Skippy to protect a military base.

More than that, with the Olympics, there’s an Australian history drenched in anti-Asian sentiment. The very first objective of the political party currently governing this country was, famously, the “maintenance of racial purity”, and you can understand why Chinese-Australians might detect in the current atmosphere echoes of our national poet Henry Lawson’s injunction to: “Get a move upon the Chinkies when you’ve got an hour to spare.”

Tibet should be free. Of course it should. But, then, the Chinese might respond: if military occupations are so odious, why are Australians still in Iraq?

Jeff Sparrow is the editor of Overland.

photog, so just bc three white countries protested, thats the whole world huh?

damn your ignorant, you dont know shit about china, maybe you know how to use chopsticks, thats about it i bet

say something intelligent, for me to counter, otherwise, shut your redneck mouth up. if you're so brave, why dont you come back to china, and talk your shit? haha pussy,

just like tibetan protesters. you'd probably only grow balls and attack someone, if they were a girl with one leg.

Al Sharpton for president!

@phagtog

oh and btw i do live in china and i love it here.
you are just afraid bc we yellow people arent a billion poor farmers anymore with pitch forks.
so you hide behind tibet issue, ugihurs issue, what ever, cant face us head on.
the world your grand father left you is gone, and your grand kids will look at us like, shit dont f@ck with them

angry little white boy whose turn on the carnival ride is over, but hes crying and doesnt want to get off, its ok, we'll come and kick you off soon. haha.

the yoke the white man has had on the world is coming off.

I've seen this floating around the 'net today. As far as I can tell it was published in SCMP on April 18th, not the Washington Post.
••••

Do you find the Chinese "a bunch of goons and thugs" or do you see CNN as an abbreviation for "China Negative News"? In the past month, mainland internet users have vented their anger over what they deem "unfair" news coverage of the country. A blog by someone nicknamed "The silent, silent Chinese" described how a mainland person felt about the image crisis.

Below is translation of the piece entitled, What do you want from us? A poem dedicated to the last 150 years of this planet.

When we were called the sick man of East Asia, we were taken as the Yellow Peril

When we were propagandised as the next super power, we were taken as a threat

When we closed our doors, you opened the market by smuggling drugs

When we demonstrated our belief in free trade, you complained that we stole your jobs

When our country was torn into pieces, your army came and demanded a slice of the melon

When we put the pieces back together, you clamoured for us to free Tibet

Fine. Then we tried to live by communism, but you hated us for our communist rules

So we moved on and accepted capitalism, but you hated that too

When we had a population of 1billion, you said we were taking over the planet

When we implemented family planning, you said it was inhumane

When we were poor, you looked down on us as dogs

When we lent you money, you blamed us for adding to your debt

When we developed our industries, you said we were the world's main polluter

When we sold you our products, you blamed us for adding to the greenhouse effect

When we purchased oil, you said it added to exploitation and genocide

When you launched a war for oil, you said it was to liberate an oppressed race

When we had riots, you wanted to take over and implement laws for us

When we calmed the riots using our law, you said we violated basic human rights

When we stayed quiet, you demanded freedom of speech

When we were silent no more, you said we were brainwashed xenophobes

When we made products for you, you said we polluted the environment

When we stopped exporting some products, you said it was trade protectionism

When we asked why you hated us, you replied, "We don't hate you"

We then said we didn't hate you either, but asked if you even tried to understand us

"Of course!" you replied. "We have media such as AFP, CNN and the BBC. What do you want from us?"

Think about it carefully

The answer is: You think you are the only one deserving so many opportunities

Enough! This world has been hypocritical enough

We hope for "One World, One Dream" and a piece of the planet as well

This blue planet is big enough for all of us.

Michael, that "poem" is pretty stupid. The poem is saying "look, you did this thing 150 years ago that is different from your policy of today! WTF?"

Does China want to know what the West wants from it? OK, I'll help: 1. Free media and right to free speech. Hell, that one is in the Chinese constitution. 2. Stop the government sanctioned oppression of ethnic minorities. 3. Basic freedoms for the Chinese populace.

What Chinese people don't seem to understand is that there is a difference between criticizing the Chinese government, which is the single most murderous in human history, and saying all Chinese people are bad. What Westerners want is for the PRC to stop screwing over Chinese people. But the Communist Party, with its death grip on the Chinese media, has been playing this off this as "Look! Westerners hate you and want to split apart China and ruin your life!" That's bullshit, and I really wish more Chinese would learn to use large doses of salt with official government messages.

IC: I hate the common claim of "democracy only works for the West! The East is better served by a traditional system!" First, democracy has proven to work very well in East Asian nations. See Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. It works everywhere it is successfully implemented: It is no coincidence that all of the African nations with their shit together are, at least on some level, democratic. It has also worked quite well in Latin America.

The second reason I hate the claim is that it implies that East Asian states are well served by their corrupt, backwards, authoritarian tyrannies.

East vs. West: 1) That argument is really completely irrelevant. In fact, it's just kind of silly. I mean, unless you think hornets are a major factor in East Asian politics. 2) Get off the damn cross. You talk about racism? Then why is the West so approving of Japan and South Korea?

"We hope for "One World, One Dream" and a piece of the planet as well

This blue planet is big enough for all of us."

Well, we shall see. No doubt that the U.S. dominance in the world is ending, as the U.S. "leadership" is just too dumb and arrogant (have you seen that palace they are building in Baghdad as the new "embassy"? what a perfect symbol of American blindness to how the world perceives us).

So, will the Chinese do better?

"So, will the Chinese do better?"

Probably not. We are only human. Probably won't have to pull an "Iraq" any time soon though, at the present we are perfectly content to let US to do all the policing while we reap the peace dividends.

What would we do after US exhaust itself in Imperial Overeach? Hopefully, continuing on the same path of "non-interference". Just build China into a super fortress, open to trade with all, but no external empire.

But as times goes on, there is no guarantee that our children or grandchildren won't grow soft in the head and follow down the same path to ruin as British has done in the past and Americans are doing now.

It isn't time to start celebrating the death of US hegemony. Not even close. The US still has by far the world's largest economy and most powerful military. Furthermore, it still has enormous political capital.

One more thing: The British Empire didn't succumb to "imperial exhaustion" or over-extension. Rather, it was simply superseded by the US, which was a far more dynamic and powerful nation. Europe was in ruins from WWII, and domination simply shifted to the US and USSR. Britain could no longer have a dominant foreign policy, so it bowed to the "wind of change" and decolonized.

"It isn't time to start celebrating the death of US hegemony."

True.

"Not even close. The US still has by far the world's largest economy and most powerful military."

As British Empire was still the top dog in 1908.

"Rather, it was simply superseded by the US, which was a far more dynamic and powerful nation."

Yup, same dynamic.

I am glad to have the privilege to live in an era where in my lifetime China will supersede US as the largest economy in the world, reclaiming the top spot lost since 1820. In fact I will do my bits to make sure that it come to pass. Either work harder or live longer : )

@teiko

i hate to say it but this blogs attracts a bunch of ignorant people who have drowned in western propaganda.

some idiot said that south korea and japan are good examples of democracy and the US treats them nice.

I will tell you why, because both countries are american military bases idiot.

they are so approving of these two countries because they are America's bitch. trust me i know, i live with the stench of american occupation in my country and its humiliating.

If south korea and Japan werent american satellites, i guarantee you they wouldnt be democracies, and they wouldnt be rich countries.

so you will counter i know, isnt it better that Americans soldiers provided stability for you to reach your economic level.

then i ask you, did you like it when the british occupied your lands in america to help you reach your economic level. occupation is occupation and its humiliating, being occupied by foreigners who come from tens of thousand miles away who dont know your culture or history is wrong

id rather be poor and free rather than rich and someone's else bitch.

@ Cao
"So, will the Chinese do better?"

"Probably not. We are only human. Probably won't have to pull an "Iraq" any time soon though, at the present we are perfectly content to let US to do all the policing while we reap the peace dividends.

What would we do after US exhaust itself in Imperial Overeach? Hopefully, continuing on the same path of "non-interference". Just build China into a super fortress, open to trade with all, but no external empire. "

Dont assume China is even gonna get the chance. that is arrogance and hubris. Lets see what develops out of the Olympics. what is clear is that China's tyrannical rule is coming to an end...that will end long B4 the Ugliest of the western systems crumble.

yu see even if China did take over it could only rule by implementation of its tyranny and really there are an awful lot of people in free countries for them to murder, torture and imprison to sustain their rule as they do within China.

China is best off just trying to get its 75% population of peasantry out of the mud; stop playing super power games; humble itself about Taiwan abd drop its over the top fascist bellicosity: They never surrendered; and continue influencing world politics economically until the west wakes up, reinvests in its own industries, and stops buying inferior Chinese products because there is profit to be made -- and anyway speaking of "over reach": - everyone knows China is paying for the Americans war in Iraq. America allows it. China allows it- its called business. So....?

This author wrote quite a lot of juicy articles on Asia, one of which is "Malaysia Bodoh (Bodoh=stupid)" describing the lists of mega projects executed just for the sake of putting Malaysia on the world map but yielding no real benefits to the economy of the nation & also to enrich the political elites. He thus seems to possess an in-depth understanding of Asia as a whole.

I salute Mr Beckman for his professional journalistic integrity not to immerse himself in the all-too-familiar Western pattern (political correctness?) of China bashing.

I am surprised the blog owner has not read any of his articles thus far!

"Of course China scores badly on human rights. We all know that. China knows that. When China's human rights performance is compared with the West you see how far China has to go. But compare it with its recent past and you see how far China has come;

soo says Blackman. How far has it really come? Isnt this what the Tibetans and others are saying, exactly: it hasnt come forward at all - how does Blackman make such a hoodwinking generalization. Where are his proofs? There are none. Oh yeah he is balanced and nuanced but also for some reason quite blind. So lets all just go on letting China do what it wilt in regards its minorities and dissidents and keep up the fiction everything is OK - this way the nasty little nationalist youth wont be roused into negative action. So the world will overlook it all and say nothing and this will be better for China???? ..and it can keep its face....

"Partly, Western activists and governments want to punish China for the sins of its past such as the killings in and around Tiananmen Square in 1989. But it is arguable whether a Tiananmen-style crackdown is even possible today. It is certainly far less likely. One reason is because many of the problems that caused the student protests then have been fixed. Students chanted for democracy but few understood what that meant. What they really wanted was better student allowances and student accommodation. They have this now."

This is a petty undervaluing of the reasons the students died in Tiananmen square = really for better rooms. come now. and they were not so naive as to have bit of an idea of what democracy meant. any form of free speech was better than what they had and still have. Who is to say a Tiananmen event could not again happen? look at Lhasa

"If human rights are measured in terms of not just the absence of tyranny but also the absence of poverty, then China's leadership has done more for human rights for a greater number of people than anyone in history."

Tell the above to the dirt farmers of Xinjiang and Gansu; and elsewhere in rural China.

"The pragmatic approach would be to congratulate China on its spectacular progress and then point out ways for further progress."

This is the mantra used by western nations and corporations bent on making their money from the China trade. China should be congratulated but the nature of the CCP, would that change, even if ways of further progress included less abuse of Han and Minorities? Han cop it bad too when they go inside but come on Michael talk to Tibetans and others who've had the horse hair spliced down their pricks? so we read:

"Tibet is important but it should not be allowed to capture the human rights debate. For one, it is not obvious that human rights abuses are worse in Tibet than elsewhere in China. Is freedom of worship severely curtailed in Tibet? Not so, judging by the numbers of monks, and yet elsewhere in China, for example, Falun Gong has been all but wiped out. Human rights abuses are almost certainly worse among China's minority Uyghur population. Executions among the Uyghurs are believed to be higher than anywhere in China. But who cares? The Uyghurs are Muslims."

and so he moves his enlightening little narrative on and he leaves the Uyghur in their torment...and we are sposed to praise this balanced article, come on..read it for what it is...but then lets forget Tibet becoz others are copping it bad like the Falun Gong- hey whats the fuss about Tibet- then he moves on also leaving the Falun Gong to their miseries and imploring us to accept his balanced view of not agitating the unsophisticated bear. We didnt put China there - it nominated to be there itselrf...the bear baitin metaphor is clever and well chosen but not necessarily accurate of why and how this situation has arisen...dont Forget Tibetans rioted. western voices rose in support just as they did in 89 when the beast revelaed itself in Tiananmen. We did feel and still feel for those people Blackman..yu have overlooked empathy...and indignation as western motivations

and his article's conclusion: all those Tibetan agitators are just the offspring of the former aristocratic feudal ruling class, they know nothing of the real Tibet..oh yeah just like the lama I once met in Sera, southern Inda who on bearing his chest showed me the cicatrices from where hot wires were strung around him and pulled until he was exhausted near death and thrown on a pile of bodies outside his monastery and left for dead until found by a passing peasant and rescued...Mr Blackman's article is either Chinese propaganda or blinkered right wing white economo speak...many Tibetans in India have walked out of PRC Tibet at the peril of their lives. Blackman's article mocks their spirit and does no justice to their tenacity to stand at the point of death for something they believe in despite China's over sensitive face...

Human Rights are not an immediate issue. China has shown over the last few decades that it has not changed its stance. Will they change in time if encouraged? Blackman would have us believe and that on the heel of the recent riots!

Blackman in fact shows an incredible misunderstanding of the mentality and nature of the Chinese rulership. That is exactly what they want to hear.

It is the nature of the beast that is the problem.

"Can the leopard change his spots or the Ethiopian the colour of his skin?"

BTW from Backman's online CV: get his perspective straight its all about the $$$$$$$$$$$

"About Michael Backman
'A brilliant writer on regional business strategies.'
Rowan Callick, Australian Financial Review"

just brilliant bloody brilliant

BTW above first post should read Backman not Blackman. It was not an intentional mistake.

@James

My arrogance and hubris will not allow me to engage in an argument with a Francophone armchair general who has very little understanding of how the real world operates.

Back to my freedom fries.

@james

i guarantee, even if the ccp were to be replaced, westerners would still cry foul and hate china and find some other excuse to criticize china.

its not about which party is in power or about human rights abuses or free speech. its about power politics.

westerners hate china and criticize china because right now is stronger and more independent than she was at beginning of the last century.

the weak are ignored and exploited, while the strong and those who might challenge you are demonized.

i seriously doubt you really care about human rights and free speech.

Yes the real world is firstly all about the upholding of tyrannical political power; and secondly making a buck at any cost. Wasnt that the beauty of the Opium Wars?

Little people dont matter. But the real world is also about such little people overthrowing big dumb giants.

BTW the above post wasnt adressed to yu Cao and yu said previously yu were, to everyone's relief, gonna shut up and not respond to me and yu havent so please keep to yr word...

@ Jim

"its not about which party is in power or about human rights abuses or free speech. its about power politics.

westerners hate china and criticize china because right now is stronger and more independent than she was at beginning of the last century."

I challenge your notion that China is stronger and more independent than she was at the beginning of the last century. In fact I would say she is weaker, has learnt nothing and in fact is totally dependant on the West for her trade and so called economic miracle. I mean apart from her financing of the Iraq war by buying American bonds where is her income from. Selling cheap products to the West. Do yu think the west would buy them if they were not cheap?

Independent my foot.

and as far as human rights go Jimmy boy they obviously mean nothing to yu but a lot to me.

the west deals quite well with a democratic Taiwan - there is no real reason it wouldnt with a united democratic China. Its just guys like yu have a chip on yr shoulder about being Chinese and want top project yr stunted egos onto the world. This si also one of the roots of Chinese racism, which we all know outside the cabals of the enlightened few , is endemic in China,. and expressed outwardly to all. Starting with its own minorities. Ya?

One problem is if yu choose to point the other way is that China has never dropped its racist, xenophobic, outdated Maoist anti-western rhetoric. Its still got a chip on its shoulder from the Opium Wars and it basically has an inferiority complex it wants to take out on the world. This is often voiced by the fascists who get on here and vow vengeance on all and sundry who disagree with their views on China. who threaten to cut throats etc. when China takes control of the world...my, my, my.

and of course in your view its only about power politics. Human Rights abuses dont matter. well i hope one day yu may have the chance to end up in a lil torture room in the motherland someplace and lets see what ya opinions would be like then with the blood oozing out of ya...

And here is more of "bad China"!

It's time for "Shark awareness week"!

http://tinyurl.com/4zt6j4

Why is it that only Carrefour received protests when there are so many other French companies like Bausch & Lomb, Areva, Total, Renault and Suez?
Because those companies are associated with high technology, advanced manufacturing and modern management methods and so are necessary for China's development. So they stay protected, Carrefour is just a department store.

And here is more of "bad China"!

It's time for "Shark awareness week"!

@james

ok there righteous one who is the savior of the world. you care about human rights abuses huh?

Why not go tell exxon mobil to stop investing in Saudi arabia. why not tell america's allies (Japanese, south korea) to boycott saudi oil?

see you dont care about human rights, Saudi oil is too valuable to the powerful elite corporations who have great influence in american foreign policy.

btw, im not Chinese, im canadian.

and america deals with taiwan nicely not bc shes democratic, US supported taiwan during the days of the KMT when they were massacring civilians and abusing human rights, see kaoshiung incident.

and their rhetoric is xenophobic and racist bc the outside world has been hasrsh to china, and im not talking about the opium wars.

during the mao era, two of the largest empires in history were threatening China with nuclear holocaust, US, and USSR

America has 40k troops in south korea, 50k in japan, another several dozen thousand in guam. imagine you have about 150k hostile troops within a few hours flight from your borders, not to mention the seventh fleet.

the US tried (and is still trying) to contain china through sk, taiwan, and japan, and USSR did it through india, and to a lesser degree vietnam.

now considering all that, are you going give open arms to the outside world when they are threatening you like that?

you guys went ape shit when a few missile went to cuba, imagine you had china's geo-strategic reality, youd be infinitely more racist and xenophobic.

im not even going to address your claim that china is more weak now than in the early 20th century. that argument you gave alone speaks the depth of your ignorance.

@ Jim: so?

ummm?

yu are Chinese/Canadian right?

In the last post I meant to say with blood oozing out of your anus but I thought Id spare u the shock of what cattle prods do when they are thus inserted. Sure yu dont want a lil trip back to the motherland?

And may I ask who are the violent reactionary protestors around the torch?James

This is from today's Australian:

Right to speak extinguished

COMMENT: Christian Kerr | April 25, 2008

AT times it looked like Lygon Street or Leichhardt on the night of a big game: young blokes driving up and down; flags sticking out of the windows.

But the context was wrong. This wasn't Melbourne or Sydney's inner city. It was the wide, formal avenues of the nation's capital.

The mood was different, too. It felt like one of those soccer games where 500 years of Balkan history is played out on the pitch.

The Olympic Torch Relay run through Canberra was supposed to be a celebration. Instead, it became a clash of cultures. Australia's lost. Yesterday, Beijing suppressed freedom of expression in the heart of our democracy.

Up to 10,000 Chinese students descended on Canberra in a show of national pride, but much of that pride was chauvinism. The T-shirts made this clear. Some simply said "Beijing 2008". Others read "One China". Some were explicit: "Tibet, Taiwan, Diaoyu Islands were, are and always will be part of China."

Banners bore a message, too. "Media: truth shall set you free," one warned. Before the torch had started running, pro-Tibetan protesters had been penned in by a ring of Chinese on Federation Mall, outside Parliament House.

It was a pattern repeated through the day and reflected in arrests. Five of the seven arrested, police media said, were Chinese.

Chinese flags were draped in front of signs and used to block off cameras. Tibet supporters were struck with flagpoles. There were racial taunts. The students looked well funded and well co-ordinated. "The way the world is ... we need events like this more than ever before," Robert de Castella said. "It's really important to continue to promote the ideals of events like the Olympic Games and the Olympic spirit."

But if anything ruled the day, it was a spirit of intimidation. Tiffany Mahon, from the Canberra suburb of Calwell, said she'd come to see the relay with her husband and mother because "we love the Olympics and we wanted to see Ian Thorpe".

But as she passed dozens of young Chinese people, encircling and shouting down a protester in Commonwealth Park, she said she was shaken by the aggression and lack of respect shown to people's right to free speech.

Ms Mahon said she had seen China supporters grab and throw away a flag from a Free Tibet protester and others surround and shout at a small band from Amnesty International, who were eventually extricated by police.

"It's pretty insulting that Australians in their own country need riot police to protect them from foreign nationals," one of the Amnesty group said.

Lars Hahn, from Canberra, attracted debate and abuse by wearing a "Free China" T-shirt and calling for Chinese people to be given a vote. "I like China but it would be a much better country as a democracy, not a dictatorship," he said.

@ Jim the Canadian

Afterthought:

re:

"now considering all that, are you going give open arms to the outside world when they are threatening you like that?"

Just like that boatload of weapons China just sent to Mugabe in Zimbabwe so as he can crush dissent? hmmm? Birds of a feather perhaps. Get your morality straight Jim: there aynt none from either side - that is my point. Im an anarchist yu twit. Give the voiceless a voice or hush up with ya big talkin high falutin power politics crap.

yeah, im a Chinese canadian, who ancestors came from scotland and have been here in Canada for generations, have red hair, and freckles. wow im really Chinese.

you can regurgitate any crappy article you found on the web, but that wont address the contradictions in your arguments.

hey at least the chinese protesters dont attack handicapped women.

China's government aint perfect and neither are its people. but you have to agree they get signaled out for things that happens all the time throughout the world.

and my argument is -- its bc of power politics. thats it, i dont love it, just speaking the facts as i see it. im a hardcore realists, and i know that human rights and free speech, they are a cover for other things, if they werent, people and govt would address human rights abuses everywhere equally, but thats doesnt happen.

its hard for westerners to accept this, i know, i used to be like you in my wide eyed college days.

you desired morals cloud your intelligence and judgement and thats dangerous because you end up demonizing a whole people and culture who dont deserve it.

it just kills you knowing that someone who isnt of chinese ancestry can be against you right? you just hate it !!! boils your blood that one of your own could be against your contradictory arguments.

@Jim.

Oh I am so hasty. comes from having to save the world - so much to do...so little time

yes I understand yr point: China definitely had a lot aimed at them but to remain xenophobic and racist is that justified now (2008)?

YU are talking about the 1950s & 60's - a quarter of a century ago. But were they not racist and xenophobic before then?

Or are these unadmirable qualities to be blamed upon the effects of the oppressive west (in which yu live) upon the innocent Chinese of the Mao era?

Just wondering where your logic lay.

@Jim. Firstly I dont believe your cock and bull Scottish ancestry tale one bit. and to quote yu:

"and my argument is -- its bc of power politics. thats it, i dont love it, just speaking the facts as i see it. im a hardcore realists, and i know that human rights and free speech, they are a cover for other things, if they werent, people and govt would address human rights abuses everywhere equally, but thats doesnt happen."

If they werent a cover then the govs would adress these issues freely and yu are calling me an unrealist. I know yuv are a "hardcore realists"

but do Yu have a handle on politcal realities? Give us a break.

Sometimes good men and women do arise who change the world's course. This has been an historic struggle.

Following yr argument we just surrender to naked power, as people of no consequence, gutless and voiceless.

To yu there is no suffering coz yu have not suffered. As I said yu yrself speak up fr the voiceless or hush up...maybe go back to college and pick up where yu left off...demonstrate, get involved with Amnesty...tray and feeel...something

my facts lie in sound judgement and cold hard facts, while you seem to be getting your logic from some fairy tale utopia

you seem to overlook how much human rights abuses your own country has caused and seem to cherry pick human rights abuse cases and arms shipments. (btw you know the largest arms shipper to the african continent are europeans right? i.e. russia and france)

most chinese are xenophobic because they dont know much about the outside world. you dont think japanese are xenophobic and racist towards foreigners? frankly i think china and chinese people are much more tolerant of foreigners than say japan, korea, or vietnam, russia,

and the reason why they are still pissed at the west, even though the cold war is long over, is bc, america still tries to destabilize and contain china.

if america pulled all of its troops out of the western pacific, and stopped shipping guns to china's internal enemies, i guarantee, you would see a more responsible and tamed china.

but until that happens, you will see occasionally erratic and hostile, and tough handed behavior. this is a realists world, you gotta meet aggression with aggression,

if the americans are spending billions on the newest military hardware, invading countries, and selling guns to your enemies, you gotta play ball too.

bc if you dont, well the ccp will go down like the qing dynasty did.

anarchists huh? that explains a lot. hahaha.

America... "shipping guns to china's internal enemies," really like who could this possibly mean?

Internal as within the country - yu are unclear!

Where and when are the Uyghur and Tibetans using guns against the Chinese? at the most we always hear of home made grenades and knives and swords and gunpowder...in the hands of those splittists...if they had guns things may be different. Thats why when yu hear of encounters it usually goes: "1 Chinese policemen dead, 17 splittist/ terrorists, scum of the nation, killed, etc." Im sure they all got guns from America. Or are yu referring to the old CIA drops to the Khampas in Tibet?

The CCP will go down like the Qing dynasty did no matter. The rot is already there. It will fall apart. The harder they try and hold on the more it will slip out of their grasp. Their own philosophies will catch them out; and it may happen in a way no one suspects.

BTW China has never officially renounced Maozedong thought and all that it entails in terms of western capitalist nations and running dogs. Yu should know that.

BTW

do yu know what an anarchist is/was?

I think not

If I was in Canadian security I would be giving some one like yu a thorough checking over. Yu seem quite like a violent anarchist type. with no loyalties to his country...if yu was in China with the same attitudes yu could be given the lil silva bullet...

@Jim

Afterthought:

"We who live in the present did not create the violence and hatred of the past. But the violence and hatred of the past, to some degree, created us. It formed the material world and the ideas with which we live, and will continue to do so unless we take active steps to unmake their cosequences."

~ Tessa Morris Suzuki, 2002.

i have been cruising around this blog and i have seen your name everywhere in the comment sections.

do you have a job or life? Or is demonizing china on blogs your hobby, life long mission to save the world?

you use trivial facts, and you come off as an angry wide eyed flamer.
maybe the chinese food delivery boy screwed up your order of low mein and this is your way of vengeance?

or maybe you were fired from your english teaching job in china, and need a way to vent anger.

Ah so. All true.

I dislike the argument "look how far China has come!" If a serial killer murdered fifty people last year, and only twenty this year, should he be congratulated?

"westerners hate china and criticize china because right now is stronger and more independent than she was at beginning of the last century."
Why, why do you listen to the goddamn Chinbese government? Why? You know it is a bloated, corrupt dictatorship. You know it has a death grip on the media. You know it is perfectly willing to massacre its own citizen. Why, goddamn it, why do you listen to it?

Burma: a province of China?

Central Asia is next ...

=======================================

China's Tentacles Reach Deep into Burma
Tyler Chapman
2008-04-17

During a month-long trip to Burma, Tyler Chapman saw how China has extended its grip on Burma’s economy to the point where the Burmese people are fed up.

RFA/Tyler Chapman

A truck full of watermelons lumbers up the Burma Road toward its ultimate destination, China. Early 2008.

MANDALAY, BURMA—
The cloud of China hangs heavily over Burma.

No matter where I went on a recent visit to Burma, the Chinese shadow was apparent, from the steady stream of trucks headed for China, to shelves full of made-in-China goods, to Chinese-owned businesses, to the Chinese oil technician I met in Sittwe.

Most Burmese I talked with are angry about what they consider China’s domination of Burma and resentful of local Chinese who pervade the business community.

“We’ve become a province of China,’ a Burmese friend said. ‘They’re doing whatever they want here.’

The Burmese junta and Chinese government have had close ties since 1988 and share a no-nonsense approach to internal dissent. They used similar tactics recently to, as they put it, ‘crush’ monk-led protests in Burma and Tibet.

Old Burma Road packed with trucks

Not only is China providing the Burmese generals with military hardware and diplomatic support, it is fast on its way to becoming Burma’s leading trade partner.

The old Burma Road, built during World War Two from Rangoon to China, is packed these days with trucks taking Burmese agricultural products to China and bringing back everything from toothpaste to pots and pans to women’s lingerie.

‘We give them what we grow,’ a friend said. ‘They give us junk. You buy that stuff and in two or three months it’s broken.’

The imports from China have replaced western goods shut off from Burma by economic sanctions imposed after the government killed an estimated 3,000 pro-democracy demonstrators in 1990.

To accommodate the increased trade, China is financing improvements on the Burma Road to speed the flow. I saw new bypasses around Mandalay and sections being widened to four lanes.

And to quench it’s ever-increasing appetite for energy, China is developing oil and natural gas fields off Burma’s southwest coast and planning a pipeline all the way across Burma to Yunnan province in southwest China.

Nothing new

BurmaChinaLingerie250.jpg
A vendor in Bagan displays her inventory of lingerie made in China, early 2008. RFA/Tyler Chapman
At the airport in Sittwe, near the offshore fields, I struck up a conversation with a Chinese man who said he was a project manager for Petrochina, the Chinese oil company.
He said he had been trained in Houston, Texas, at Input/Output Inc. In fact, he said, Input/Output (now ION Geophysical Corp.) is helping Petrochina survey Burma’s offshore sites.

China’s exploitation of Burma’s natural resources is nothing new.
Satellite photos of Burmese forests on the China border show miles of clear-cut devastation where lush teak groves once grew. Millions of dollars worth of logs went to China, where environmentalists say they were labeled Indonesian teak to circumvent embargoes on the Burmese variety.

Smugglers thrive and corruption is rampant

‘It’s amazing what has happened up there,’ an environmentalist told me. ‘Those forests will never come back.’

Burma-China border towns have become free-trade zones where residents say smugglers thrive and corruption is rampant. Drugs, gems and other contraband cross the border either way, for a price.

Nowhere is the animosity toward the Chinese more evident than in Mandalay, where descendants of World War Two Chinese refugees and newly arrived immigrants dominate the business community.

Broad segments of the Burmese economy

I visited one of the three new malls built with Chinese money in Mandalay. Security guards at the door made it perfectly clear: no pictures inside. The upscale clothing and electronics shops were doing little business, their prices out of reach for ordinary Burmese.
Even though ethnic Chinese make up but three per cent of the population, they are said to control broad segments of the Burmese economy, with the connivance of the generals at the top.

‘They have the best cars, the best houses,’ a Burmese acquaintance told me. ‘They’ve sold out to the government and become rich. That’s all they want, to be rich.’

Even though China has paid lip service to the need for change in Burma, there is little incentive for Beijing to support a move toward democracy. It has too much to lose. A democratic government in Burma would welcome a renewal of western trade and investment.

‘Both governments want to keep things just as they are,’ a friend told me.

Tyler Chapman is a pseudonym to protect the author's sources.

ok, a question for all your tibet and uighur lovers. would you accept tibet and xinjiang as an inalienable part of china, if it were controlled by a western style democratic government in beijing?

YOU STILL WOULDN'T

westerners still would support the separatists even if china created a government in beijing acceptable to westerners.

so there is no point in providing concessions, the more concession you give, the more they will demand

a policy of appeasement to the westerners and separatists will only lead to more land being stolen from china.

just like when the Qing dynasty gave up outter manchuria to the russians, and when the KMT gave up outter mongolia without a fight. and gave up manchuria to the japanese.

all of them were emboldened and attacked more when china gave up land.

if you let today's hostile entities take china's territory they will want more.
So China should never engage in a policy of appeasement towards western demands, never!

"then i ask you, did you like it when the british occupied your lands in america to help you reach your economic level."

Britain didn't "occupy" America. Britain colonized and gave birth to what is now called America ("America" pre British colonization was no resemblance to modern America). saying that Britain "occupied" America is a bit like saying China is now occupying Guangdong. It's silly. Further, the US is not occupying Japan or South Korea. The US has military bases there that exert no political influence. Japan and South Korea are functioning, stable democracies. They are highly influenced by the US, but that is simply because they are "allies".

As for being "poor and free", without the Us Japan and South Korea would have oodles of the former and none of the latter. You remember the Korean War? Where the US saved South Korea from total occupation from the North? Well, if the US hadn't intervened, South Korea would be enjoying the tender mercies of Kim Jong Il.

"if america pulled all of its troops out of the western pacific, and stopped shipping guns to china's internal enemies, i guarantee, you would see a more responsible and tamed china."

No you wouldn't. China would immediately occupy Taiwan and perhaps use military intervention in Indochina.

"As British Empire was still the top dog in 1908."

Not really. Industrially certainly the Us and probably Germany superseded it. Militarily Germany was superior (And the US had a much higher military potential). Britain was a great power because it had a very canny foreign policy.

Backman's article the more one looks at it the more it stinks: the longer it lay around the more the flies are into it.

To point out that there are more executions among the Uyghur than anywhere else in China, the country in the world that executes the most people per annum and to just leave that as a way of saying the Tibet issue isnt that important or precious because of this then to leave the Uyghur issue as if that execution rate is not symptomatic of a serious problem concernbing Human Rights abuse in Xinjiang itself, to move on to the persecution of the Falun Gong and say hey people are persecuted all over China so lets not make Tibet such an issue; so as we dont make China lose face is kowtowing arse kissing tripe. The article basically is a smokescreen to take the reading public's attention from Tibet. It is sophistry at its best/worst.

I previously posted Backman's (or was that Cashman's?) "brilliant" motivation is all about economics. The present suffering of the persecuted in China means nothing what is important is placating the now enraged bear.

As Tiako pointed out his simplistic definitions of the West are almost Huntingtonesque. The IOC put China in and not the West - there is no "West". China proffered itself for the games as it knows the political clout hosting the games putatively brings to it...it is failing ...however.

Simplistic, stereotype based pseudo analysis such as Backman's feed the ignorant. Fools on this blog applauded it...my ...my...for its balance. There is no balance only a whitewash of real issues. Any way Backman back home at London in his art gallery a la Asie can no doubt live the high life to the ululation of his dumbfounded parvenu devotees...until his next brilliant installment of how to make bucks off the Chinese appears...

@Wonger. I think many westerners would be quite happy with that arrangement if that really matters. Yu shouldnt like Backman homogenize the West as one. But what really matters is whether Uygurs and Tibetans are happy with it. When is the great Chinese referendum among its nationalities without threat or fear of Mugabesque intimidation gonna happen in the great democratic motherland? Then yu can perhaps ask yr question. Really it doesnt matter what your "westerners" think. Do yu think a fair democratic government can rule in China free of chauvinism towards its minorities?

and so much for China's face ~ China backs down coz it knows its losing more than its face. Backman again misinterprets the power of conscience:

Rudd 'should mediate Dalai Lama talks'

The Australian April 26, 2008

GREENS leader Bob Brown says reports that Chinese officials will meet with a representative of the Dalai Lama is a victory for protesters who dogged the Olympic torch relay.

The state-run Xinhua news agency reported today that officials would meet soon with a representative of the Tibetan spiritual leader.

China has come under intense foreign pressure to hold talks with the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader since rioting erupted in the Tibetan capital Lhasa last month and spread to other areas populated by Tibetans.

The protests have since focused on the Olympic torch relay, which has been held in international locations in recent weeks, including in Canberra on Thursday.

"This is a great step forward for the people of Tibet and a real victory for the peaceful pro-Tibet protesters around the world,'' Senator Brown said.

"The Greens suggest that Prime Minister Kevin Rudd might use his good offices to assist the talks between the Dalai Lama and Beijing.''

Do not get too excited. If CCP gives in to Daliar Lama after the riot and the antics of torch snatching, something will have to be changed about CCP.

@funny

Dont yu think thats possibel?

Or is this a face saving trick so things dont get right out of hand before the Olympics?

Either way they (CCP) gave given ground.

Maybe a quick reading of Sun Zuu or maybe a revelation of common sense has come upon them, we'll see.

The negotiations wil be interesting.

If you were the DL would you go to China?

Interesting article. The Olympic Games will be a marvel no doubt and Beijing will transform into a truly dynamic place: East meets west in its most grandiose panache since the establishment of Sino-West relations. The Western media and interest groups will continue to project China’s human rights shortcomings, and the Chinese media will continue to present favourable minority news.

While I acknowledge that the western media does have some flaws and biased when reporting about Human Rights in China, sadly, there is just too much State control to take Chinese media seriously when controversial politics are discussed. Madam Fu-Ying said that the Western media must still earn the respect of the China people, but many in the West feel Chinese media is still grossly subjective and only prints fair-weathered artiles when the CCP is concerned.

Michael Backman is ambitious and will do and say anything to get frontpage coverage. Like many Chinese and those media who assert human rights abuses in Tibet, Backman has never been to Tibet. Ask him face to face what he knows about human rights, china and indeed the Tibet issue and he would disappoint in the same way many Chinese feel those westerners who report without knowledge of China would.

But I do love all the cultural revolution rhetoric that has been dusted off and found new life with a new generation of ultra-nationalists. "Running Dog", being my favorite slanderous term.

Also loved this comeback:
"better to be a running dog with eyes wide open than a blind sheep with eyes wired shut!"

radix malorum est cupiditas

@james

Nothing will come out of "the negotiations" because DL demands the impossible: at least 1/4 of China, all non-tibetans out and all military out. He really wants to turn back the clock of ages, not just autonomy.

He wants so called "greater Tibet" which could be the territory of "Tibetan Empire" at its prime that was about 13 hundreds years ago. If Native Americans demand the same, people of 300 millions will have to leave, wouldn't you say that will not happen?

I don't know how DL will deal with people who are not "100 %" of Tibetans. "Miscegenation" is part of the fear of "Cultural genocide". "Miscegenation" is still used by "white power" to describes interracial relations, but even white supremists will not use the word for French-Briton couples. DL is a racist and it baffles me why he has such appeal to western liberals.

funny,
That is simply not true. The Dalai Lama has said numerous times that he doesn't want independence from China, because he doesn't think that will benefit Tibet. he simply wants the PRC to honor their agreement to a degree of regional autonomy.

@ funny

the comparison of Tibetans with native americans is anachronistic. We are looking at a genocidal frontier NOW in operation in Tibet and Xinjiang- not 200 years ago. China is gobbling up Tibetan land now- its not too late. If it is 1/4 of China that belongs to Tibet- then China stole it in the last 50 years. History is not a closed book here. The in migration of Han has not yet been complete so as they can commit the same cultural genocide whites did in America 200 years ago - the Tibetans are not on reservations yet...but they will be if the Han have their way. Stop this American Indian comparison. Wait til the Uyghur and other Turkic groups get their homeland. Then China will be what it really is if the Han want to culturally dominate - what it was in the Ming, stripped of its colonies. Dont say it cant happen coz it can...

if China isnt willing to openly and honestly negotiate then they are up to subterfuge and deception...they will be caught out ...as the hands of fate and destiny are now turning against the CCP -the more they hang on now the more they will lose power. the more force they use the weaker they become. They MUST grant Autonomy or lose the empire.

@ funny

and who says that Han cant live in an autonomous Tibet or Xinjiang? Have the rightful occupants of those lands ever been consulted about how many of the former colonizing race they would allow to live in their autonomous Regions? You maybe surprized. Dont forget that elder brother Mao initially recognized the former colonizers: the KMT, as imperialists and fascist chauvinists, as exploiters of the nationalities.

The Han would be needed. Unchecked in-migration and planned assimilation policies would be scrapped. Chinese would still be taught in schools just as English is in China - as an important second language. But so would Russian and Hindi and Nepali and Urdu and Dari and Mongolian.

The real issue would be they decide for themselves what goes down. China looks after foreign policy. Mao deceived the nationalities way back and everyone knows that. Maybe a true, strong China would grant the autonomy to these people that was originally promised by the CCP - lets see if they can live up to their own pronounced virtues. Then the world may start thinking of them as great as different to the regimes and dynasties of the past their ideology so criticizes and uses as a justification for their own legitimacy of rule. Where is the difference? The clock is ticking...

@ Funny

Speaking of inter-racial relations, does it not worry you that the racial nationalism currently going on in China is comparable to that of Japan before it took on the world - read Yamato Race. The DL, as has been stated above, only asks for greater "autonomy" for the people of Tibet. Your assertions worry me and prove how misinformed even educated Chinese people are. Does it also seem a little unfair that these Autonomous regions, XUAR included, actually have less freedoms than the greater China... please ask me for examples, I have many many... :)

@ those who dont understand what DL's "autonomy" really means

the DL speaks of autonomy, but it isnt autonomy. its what i call the waiting game. DL knows that china is too strong right now, and that currently, because of its importance in the global economy, the DL cant convince his overlords (US, Europeans) to support tibetan independence.

so the DL will play the waiting game, pretend you dont want independence, but lay the framework, foundation, and institutions and call it "meaningful autonomy" so that, when should it happen, the Beijing government becomes weak, you will declare independence.

its similar to when France gave up Alsace-Lorraine to the germans in 1871. obviously tibet isnt france, and china isnt germany, but its the same idea. when your nemesis is too strong, you give into demands and wait, but keep your ultimate goal in the background at all times, and when the right time arrives, you implement your ultimate goal.

maybe a better analogy is to compare the DL and his group with some elements in the the palestinian resistance. some Palestinians are willing to accept Israel's existence bc she is too strong right now. but the moment the palestinians are powerful enough, they will try to achieve their ultimate goal, which is the end of israel's government. DL and his group are doing the same thing.

off on a tangent, the DL is more like Yasser Arafat than he is like Gandhi. like Yasser Arafat, the DL only cares about his own political power, returning to power, and his own political legacy, (DL like arafat, wants to be remembered in history as taking on a such larger adversary and winning.) DL cares more about the former than he does about the plight of the tibetan people.

the DL claims he isnt responsible for inciting violence in tibet and sabotaging the olympics and that he condemns violence.
just like when arafat said he condemns suicide bombers.

trust me, the DL reads more intelligence reports and newspapers than he does buddhist scriptures.

i know all of you are going to howl about how these arent related, trust me it sounds better than when you guys try to compare china with nazi germany.

we have to remember, the DL is a political actor, imagine he wore a suit, or a military outfit, instead of hiding behind a robe, than most of you would see him for who he really is. he hides behind a robe, bc he knows hollywood and a bunch of tree hugging liberals will say, ahhh poor monk.

Jim or is it Cao?

"trust me, the DL reads more intelligence reports and newspapers than he does buddhist scriptures."

trust yu? How do yu know this?

DL more like Arafat. Oh yeah. we trust yu. YES there yu are really off on a tangent (unlike the tree huggers concerned about human rights) but we trust yu.

Tibet is Tibet. Tibet's situation is unique. It is not Palestine or any where else. These allusions are an effort to really distort the situation. Autonomy is coming and Han fascists dont like the idea it would seem Jim.

BTW it is His Holiness the DALAI Lama not DL. ok cmd.

BTW 'meaningful autonomy' of course would be much better than the ersatz autonomy Tibet and Xinjiang have had to live under the last 50 years

while having no say in the running of their autonomous region, their mineral riches plundered, their lands taken, their culture infected with atheistic materialism and their populations watered down in the name of the Han 'nation' wouldnt yu say?

Comparing China to nazi Germanay may be wrong as yu say "Jim" but the traits of fascism are very evident within China's ultranationalism, this wil be a warning to the free world from the Olympic torchj protest reaction. This attitude is always just below the surface and has many mouth pieces. Even in Canada it would seem from latest blog site post (mutant palm). The torch protests cannot be blamed for inciting this attitude. It is already there waiting, unfulfilled it would seem.

his name is Tenzin Gyasto, he's just a man, not some mythical figure than western propaganda (CNN, Hollywood) makes him out to be.

ok Tibet is tibet, than China is China. every situation is different.

than people should stop trying to compare china with other countries like nazi germany, fascists japan.

funny how, when i argue like you, you go ape shit.

have you ever been to tibet or is your only source the movie seven years in tibet?

you love Tenzin bc you hate china, chinese people, and chinese culture. your a sino-phobic racist.

Darling I pointed out before you went monkey pooing all over the nice clean page that it is perhaps wrong to compare China and Nazi Germany but not wrong to point out that fascist stirrings are very similar in many places and they arise for the same reasons. So settle down xiao han.

The Dalai Lama is a man of course but Tibetans also believe he is a god incarnate and that you have absolutely no respect for their beliefs or sentiments is bloody painfully obvious.

Unlike yourself I have been to Tibet many times and yes Greater Tibet all through the wonderful Golok areas of what yu call Qinghai and Ngaba in what you call Sichuan. let alone the areas of greater Tibet in Yun nan and Gansu. Maybe you should go there too. I liked Lhasa best in mid 1980s before all the Han got there and long before the railway line brought modernity and lots of goods from sweatshops on the coast. You should try Bhutan too and Ladakh to give you an idea of how vast the Tibeatn culture area is. But to speak of greater Tibet is often just that - it denotes the Tibetan culture area rather than a political delineation: but of course Qinghai was Amdo province of old Tibet as western Sichuan was Kham and this wasnt very long go. These areas were borderlands never clearly defined until the Communist did their divide and conquer imperialist demarcations up in the high areas where a Han rarely went in days gone by (ca. 1959). So Jim to be polite, go stick ya smarmy lil racist fascist head up some dead monkey's arse.

@ Jim, DL's version of Autonomy is the same as the international communities. The only varying version being the Soviet model China has morphed so that real autonomy "understood to refer to independence of action on the internal or domestic level" is not possible for Tibetans; or "control over their own affairs", hardly.

But whatever is said or is done by the DL it won't make a lick of difference because you've already been convinced, like most other PRC's good citizens, that he is the antichrist and I bet you even if he turned water into wine the CCP would probably accuse him of "turning water into the blood of Han everywhere.." or something just as colluded.

Reading your factless comments was, in the words of Peter Fleming, that 'to read a propogandist, a man with vested intellectual interests, is dull as dining with a vegetarian'. - props to C. Tyler

Jim, why do you consider the Chinese government to be a good information source?

"you love Tenzin bc you hate china, chinese people, and chinese culture. your a sino-phobic racist."

So, because he admires the Dahlia Lama, he is a racist. I really hope you are joking.

All these anti-China morons,

Here I have to show my sincere appreciation to unite the Chinese in China and disaporic Chinese communities together!
Next step, we will conduct cultural genocide to Tibetans, as Dalai Lama suggested.

Thanks!

James,

I have copied all your pictures and will post them on Tianya.cn. I will call for a nationwide campaign in China to catch you son of bit'ch as a splitist criminal.

Thank you for telling me you are in Beijing.

@James,

Stop to misinform people who doesn't know Tibet.

There are nothing called Provinces in Tibet. Amdo or Kham were NEVER being under Lhasa control after Lan Darma was killed by Lamas. That is VERY LONG ago.

If you don't like Chinese sources about how Kangxi defines borders between his provinces, or how Zhao Erfeng, or province of XiKang, you can check Mr. Shakaya's book on that.

I know you guys love to repeat untrue information to make it sounds like a truth (for example, about 1.2M Tibetans being killed after 1950), but in today's information age, you can no longer to do that.

I can only add my voice to the high number of the voices which already congratulated you for the great work in informing the world about Xianjing and Tibet. Many thanks, I'll keep reading and visiting you regularly.

Lydia,
That's right! Kill the bastard who dares call Chinese intolerant!

Incidentally, are Chinese people simply unable to comprehend the idea of a loyal opposition?

Sha,
The figure of exactly how many Tibetans were killed in the Chinese takeover is ambiguous. It probably wasn't as high as 1.2 million, but it also wasn't zero, and one Tibetan murdered is one Tibetan too many. It just so happens that it was a great deal more than one. The Chinese government gives it as 87,000, and it is safe to say that the Chinese government didn't take the high estimate.

So, we are looking at something likely over 100,000 dead due to Chinese actions. Add to that what can accurately be described as "cultural genocide" (93% of monks forced out an all but 70 of the 2500 monasteries were left by 1962) and perhaps we can see why people might criticize Chinese policy in Tibet.

And for once, let's not have any Chinese government bullshit, OK?

Sorry. When I said "all but 70 of the 2500 monasteries were left by 1962" I meant "only 70 of the 2500 monasteries were left by 1962".

Ugh. Triple post. Sorry.

@sha

"If you don't like Chinese sources about how Kangxi defines borders between his provinces..."

sorry Sha Kangxi was a Manchurian emperor ruling the Han when China was part of Manchuria.

@ Lydia

please drop around to my Beijing hutong antytime for sex that is appropraite for yu, any way, any how. bring your friends but they must leave their weapons with my body guards at the moon gate. Love James.

@Tiako,

Do you remember there was a rebellion in 1956, right? There was also one in 1959, and CIA-backed insurgents until 1975?

When you engage in a war, do you expect no lose of life?

So you just expect that one rebels started to kill Party's members (both Han and Tibetan) of non-armed working group, then that is OK since they are Commies. But if they were fighting back, that is murder.

Sounds familiar? Well, read all Western reports about March 14 in Lhasa, people will see the difference.

@James,

Sorry, Kanxi is a Chinese Emperor who is ethnic (actually half since his mother was Han) Manchu. He didn't rule over Han for his Empire. He ruled over Han, Manchu, Mongol, Tibetan, Uyghur, etc. you name it. And his Empire is NOT Manchuria. The Manchuria is a region that consists whatever in Russian Far East and Chinese Northeast today.

Learn some history before open you mouth and spit out lie.

For other people who don't know--Ming Dynasty founder Zu Yuanzheng was mixed with Hui blood. His son Zu Di was either by a Mongol princess or a Korean princess. As many know all Yuan Dynasty emperors were ethnic Mongols. Song Dynasty Zhao family with Caucasian bloods. Before that you have Shatou family for Later Tang who were Nordics. Tang Dynasty was from Li family who was Sino-Turko. Then Wei Dynasty with Tubagacha. Etc.

Since the term of China and Chinese being used--start from Chin Dynasty (Qin), there were, are and will be always a multi-ethnic country.

Lydia said: "All these anti-China morons".

You're right, the Chinese blowhorn media are right, there is nothing wrong in Tibet, everyone is happy because they are told to be and truth is what the CCP say it is.

Wicked. Then we have nothing to worry about. The Olympic Games will rock!!!

Moron.

@ Sha

so what is a Han?

and if they are so mixed why do they persecute others?

Qing was a Manchurian dynasty- not Han- even if Kangxi was half chinese he ruled as a Manchurian who had taken the throne of China- China belonged to Manchuria. Peking was always a Mongol city-built by Mongols who are related to the Manchu - argue against that. They took what Chinese administrative practices suited them and implemented them to rule over the Han.

Yuan was a mongol dynasty when China (the han areas)belonged to Mongolia.

Get your han-centric perceptions out of the way and then yu will see history and its unfolding pattern clearly.

the CCP is the first Han dynasty since the Han dynasty really.

that China has always been an multi ethnic country is not the point:

the point is China has never really existed as CHINA during all of those periods of mixed blood rulership yu mention - apart from the Ming restoration anti Yuan reaction; maybe the Song neo-Confucian period also but Ill take yoiur word the Song emperors wertent Chinese (Han) either.

yu stab your own argument in the foot here sha.

was the Jin a Chinese dynasty

the Wei?

no?

the historians just wrote it that way later

get it right before accusing others of getting it wrong; but thanks for the time and input. I mean that.

If yu are a friend of Lydia could yu please tell her that after she comes around to my place for our little session we could post the fotos on Tianya.cn for all to see - that'd be a good post hey Sha?

@james

haha, you are probably one of these, back home losers, who come to china because he get any action back in his home country.
most westerners who come to china are good, except a few like James who are perverted and racists.

you give westerners a bad image.

Nothing wrong with being perverted.. it happen's when you spend too long in China, hanging out with sexually supressed people like pollack. What I want to know is how on earth was it deduced that James is a racist?

screw all the han chauvinists in this blog. I am racists, so what??

White Power!! Sig Heil!!!

@James,

Don't try to move the goal post. Nobody said that Kangxi is a Han Emperor. Your original argument is that Kangxi is NOT a Chinese Emperor so whatever he did have nothing to do with China. You think that if you can threw few twisted terms around than most of people will get fool by you?

@whoever posted
two posts above

this in my name

"screw all the han chauvinists in this blog. I am racists, so what??

White Power!! Sig Heil!!! "

signing James

It was not I

as the blogmaster could verify

Id say it was possibly Cao or a Cao type

Speak about the idea of Autonomy for the minorities and see what yu get.

Anyway Lydia I AM WAITING FOR YU. make it early in the evening if you could. Loves James

@sha

Han = Chinese

teh rest are Tibetansd

or Uyghurs

or Yao

or Kazakh

or Tu

or Dongxiang

or

Ba'aon

or

.....

more @ Sha

"You think that if you can threw few twisted terms around than most of people will get fool by you?"

this is exactly what the CCP has been doing for 50 years

with people like yu.

So yes the answer is YES.

They are all coming out of the woodwork now. Im goingback to the hutong for soem ahh...refreshments...

@Sha

Lets just say despite his mixed parentage KANGXI was a Manchurian who ruled the Chinese people like all of the Qing emperors. They were not Han. They united your CHINA for yu and China ended up with Manchuria. No they werent Chinese emperors coz China as yu know it today didnt exist then. Its that simple.

Yu can Thank Qianlong for Mongolia, Tibet , Turkestan and other areas.

Thus modern China was created by Manchus not Chinese (Han).

@Sha

i take back what i said, actually the Chinese state as we know it, was created back in 221 BC, by the QIn, since then the chinese state has been like an accordion,

Mongolia, tibet, and turkestan was added to the Chinese state, by both the tang, and yuan dynasty's later on. sorry for my mistake.

lydia, i would be weary of James, he sounds like a rapists. to everyone, keep an eye on your drinks if you are near this scumbag.

@lydia:

"I have copied all your pictures and will post them on Tianya.cn. I will call for a nationwide campaign in China to catch you son of bit'ch as a splitist criminal.

Thank you for telling me you are in Beijing."

It will be nice to figure out what James is doing in Bejing. Why is someone who hates 90%+ of the population in China living in the capital?
Isn't that a grave security issue?

If Chinese emperors could take wives of different ethnities, Why, in 21th century, some foreigners are trying so hard to draw clear lines and incite ethnic hatred between different ethnicities in China, while Obama is running for president in USA? It does make you wonder what is the motive.

@james

Han Chinese speak at least 7 dialects and the written language, Chinese, is what has been connecting them. Any culture without a long history of literatures can hardly be called a civilisition. Whatever the ethnicity ruled whatever the dynasty in China, most majority of literatures and official documents were written in Chinese.

It is bullshit to say that the concept of China was made up by CCP. Chinese outside China were called Chinamen in West in Qing dynasty.

As far as I know, during Qing dynasty, Han Chinese didn't start to talk in Manchu tongue and write in Manchu and it was the other way around. After a few generations, Mandarin was the language of communication in Qing court. I doubt the last emperor could speak any Manchu. That was how they could have ruled China for hundreds of years.

CCP has very liberal and progressive policies toward minorities. It was quite a shock to me when I realized that Afican Americans would be arrested if they didn't give their seats to whites in 60's. In China, some Chinese try to dig out whatever minority blood in them, if nothing, they try to convert to musilim. Why is that if minorities are bullied by Han?

"Peking was always a Mongol city-built by Mongols who are related to the Manchu - argue against that". James, you have funny opinion about history. Genghis Khan was as famous or notorious as he was, his people were normadic and illiteral. I doubt that Peking was realy built by Mongols unless you can come up with something solid. BTW, Urghurs should stop wining. They(Turk) were upper class under mongol rule. Mongols brought millions of central Asians into China and why is it so terrible that population flow the other way now?

@ funny

"it was quite a shock to me when I realized that Afican Americans would be arrested if they didn't give their seats to whites in 60's."

the reason why that happened bc i believe blacks are sub human.

and the reason why the dig up ethnic minority status is so they can more get more benefits, just like how many americans try to dig up native american ancestry to get more benefits.

@james re this post above

"it was quite a shock to me when I realized that Afican Americans would be arrested if they didn't give their seats to whites in 60's.

the reason why that happened bc i believe blacks are sub human.

and the reason why the dig up ethnic minority status is so they can more get more benefits, just like how many americans try to dig up native american ancestry to get more benefits."

as i said elsewhere above this is how scampered certain han people are by these posts.They are accusing me of racism...can ya believe it?

I have nothing to do with the above although they are now signing themselves as James. Yes I am the one they are looking for in Beijing who supposedly hates 95% of the Chinese race or something Im the one who wants to have sex with Lydia in my hutong and post the pics on Tianya.cn ...I am not responsible for the above posts re African americans and american indians as you all are probabaly aware...but it is interesting that some one is doing this...maybe the web police; can yu believe that...anyway as long as the webmeister doesnt mind let the discussion continue and lets see what other murderous threats, hate campaigns and slights are launched against me as I secretly skulk around the streets of old Beijing...plotting... plotting.........hahahahahahaha!@!!!...

HGow many Han fascist do we find on blogs condemning the west from within western countries while enjoying all the benefits of those countries?

all I do is suggest autonomy for Tibet and that I want to poke Lydia who says shes gonna get me on Tianya and all bloody hell breaks lose; pseudo James' appear who hate Afican americans - god pseudo James my girlfriend is African for cryin out loud...and she dont care if I give it to Lydia either.. or Pollack for that matter - ooooh Pollack--love the name sweety. Anyway stay tuned to Tianya.cn for the pics...luv ya alll. the real James.

p.s. Lydia if yu are there could yu please contact me, its getting hard... without yu...around

Heres another one by the "pseudo James" after I posted that China could thank Qianlong for Tibet, Turkestan and Mongolia. What do yu think is going on here:: great isnt it::

"@Sha

i take back what i said, actually the Chinese state as we know it, was created back in 221 BC, by the QIn, since then the chinese state has been like an accordion,

Mongolia, tibet, and turkestan was added to the Chinese state, by both the tang, and yuan dynasty's later on. sorry for my mistake."

Actually in reagrd this pseudo post in my name: the Tang were whooped in Central Asia in 751 by the Arabs - well the Tang Turkic army was whooped by an Arab army consisting of mainly Turkic mercenaries.The 4 garrisohns (yes only 4 garrisons) collapsed as a political unit in the Tarim basin and Tang fled back into real China where the Han were (ruled by Turks and Sogdians) and they stayed there until 1759 when the Manchu Qing army annexed Turkestan ( with mainly non-Han troops of Tungusic origin strongly related to Turkic and Mongol peoples such as the Xibe and teh Daur who are still in Xinjiang along teh borders))- yes thank yu Qian long. Im not anti-Han Im just opposed to Han natioanlist historiography and all of its make believe. I like Lydia... anyway..shes Han...

more on the pseudo james statement:

"actually the Chinese state as we know it, was created back in 221 BC, by the QIn, since then the chinese state has been like an accordion, .."

Love the "accordion" meatphor eh.? and contracting. But the original state of Qin - was quite small- Yellow river valley area near Ordos. the original Chinese state then did not extend beyond those borders. and often contracted to near those early borders when they were whooped in Central Asia after failed Imperilistic endeavours - that is the lesson of History - the Han have always been defeated in Central Asia after expansion and then retreated back to their original state and proper ethnic milieu. But according to the rasoning of the pseudo JAMES all those areas it expands into remain hers
- HOW ABOUT VETNAM THEN? Didnt yu guys get whooped down there to for the same arrogance. then had to retreat after expanding. Still claim Vietnam. Howe about the areas of Kirghizstan and Kazakhstanb that briefly came under 4 garrison rule in Tang? Still China pseudo James? Yu are out of yr depth peg head?

@funny re:

"James, you have funny opinion about history. Genghis Khan was as famous or notorious as he was, his people were normadic and illiteral. I doubt that Peking was realy built by Mongols unless you can come up with something solid. BTW, Urghurs should stop wining. They(Turk) were upper class under mongol rule. Mongols brought millions of central Asians into China and why is it so terrible that population flow the other way now?"

Funny, speaking of illiteracy its "illiterate" not "illiteral" dunce.

nomadic not "normadic"

Its Uyghurs not "Urghurs"

Maybe Genghis Khan could have taught you soemthing about literacy. If you must bastardize language bastardize your own...

AND Who built Peking?

Kubilai built it upon the foundations of earlier Turco-Mongol rulers on the same spot - dunce.

yure a dunce in history and dunce in literacy

go back to school.

and dont yu just love this reasoning and justification for Han population invasion of Tibet and Xinjaing and poor Inner Mongolia:

"... Mongols brought millions of central Asians into China and why is it so terrible that population flow the other way now..."

I might have afunny opinion anbout history funny. but its not as funny as yours.;.hahahahahahahaha!

Methinks this once untampered and informative blog is now under the watchful gaze of China's netizen police.

God help us if this is China's behaviour if or when they become a world power...

omg, this is too funny. you morons and your comments just made the round in my office, and we were cracking up all day. wow james so defensive, and jimba, self infatuated paranoia.

what arrogance, you guys think some intelligence agency or police are looking at you or this stupid blog. omg, too funny

i knew this would incite some defensive black lashes, but to think the police are watching you or this blog, omg give me a break.

dont give yourselves too much credit. what, you guys think you are some front line freedom fighters on the net? haha, morons

i bet for a few hours there you felt pretty brave and righteous, to attract the police huh? ohhhhh. hahaha. keep it up.

anyways, thanks for the laughs. sig hiel James! haha

Where's Lydia guys?

Yu guys bangin her out the back of the secret plice station?

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Bring her round the hutong. Not fair yu jerks get all the fun and privilege juSt fr spyin on poor paranoid Jimba and the truly deluded true James

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

hahah, btw if you havent guessed, it was me posing as you, pseudo james as you call me, wasnt hard, just had to attack really dumb, worked well huh? hahaha

@funny

You are correct. Dadu, the capital that Kubilai built was burned by Ming army. Current city of Beijing is build upon Ming foundation. Just ignore that guy who pretends that he knows Chinese history just because he read couple of books.

@james whatever or whatever james

You can pick on my English all you want if that can make you feel better. Urghur and Uyghur were both used in literatures and interestingly neither shows up in my "Webster's New World College Dictionay(Fourth edition)", hope that will not dim your glee.

You give too much credit to single individual in history, did he really design or build anything? As brilliant as Genghis Khan, there are not much left to show for modern Mongols. Why is that?

It is FUNNY to use ethnicity of Last Chinese Emperor or the map of Han dynasty(over two thousands years old) to argue where modern Han Chinese should live. It is meaningless in reality to relocate population according to where the Romans live or who ancient Britons were.

I just tried to use history to show that no such "evil Han" genocided other people and people fought a lot just like everywhere else on earth. "Culture genocide" has been going on there for thousands of years, like it any or not.

BTW, Han was defintely involved in getting new territory in Qing and whatever ethinicity ruled after Qing would definitely try to hold on the territory anyway.

Whatever reading this blog:

Why Westerners tried to do very hard to make Chinese a narrow description of Han?

Because in this way, they can call Qing Dynasty is NOT a Chinese Empire even though since way back, all Western government documents and whatever newspapers already called Qing Dynasty Chinese whatever.

So why the change? Well, if you deny that Qing Dynasty as Chinese, then you can deny the legal base that both ROC and PRC inheriting the lands from Qing Court (minus whatever pieces already cut by foreign powers). In this case, that Taiwan, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, and Xinjiang will become NOT China. That is a good legal argument for Western countries formal policies regarding China in the future.

@ Cao

I don't know much about history and I am not interested in politics. It just irks me a lot this overblown Han chauvinism by some Chinese minorities outside China. Even one of my neighbors asked me whether I was Han, as little as most Americans know about anything outside America.

Tibet and Xinjing are inside China now and I don't see anything wrong for other Chinese population flow into the territory as if non Han never went and go into ancient Han's land.

Urghurs are FUNNY that they try to identify themselves with the "Caucasian" mummies of three thousands years old. But they were not even there then and they look much more Chinese than my maternal grandma. The media here recently reported that they were trading jade on "jade-trading" Silk Road. It is easy to see the spin.

Honestly, CCP has not done a good job and "Culture genocide" should accelerate.

@Sha

Exactly.

CCP's education system never promotes Han as as the master race and old "great Han" narrative is definitely censored out. I didn't know that I belonged to the "master" race until recently in America.

The purpose of Han = Chinese and overrated "Han chauvinim" is to say Qing is not Chinese empire and Hans are like early Europeans and treat minorities as sub humans and deprive their human rights. Whatever little hum