I was interested in this: "When I was hanged on the cross, nobody was with Me, but now I am with you."

First, technically Jesus wasn't hanged on the cross. A person hanged is someone who has had a rope fastened about their neck that, through suspension, causes their death. Something that has been hung has been attached to a vertical surface. So Jesus was hung on the cross, or better yet, crucified.

More importantly, Jesus' Seven Last Words ("Oh God, why hast thou forsaken me?") demonstrate pretty clearly that even he is allowed to have a crisis of fate, so why wouldn't a portly Chinese man?

And yes, I did just post totally off topic.

There is a growing belief among Muslims and Christians (and possibly Jews) that it is China that will be the "army from the east" that comes to crush Jerusalem.

China has long had aspirations on ruling central Asia and will always be vulnerable at sea, so having "hands on" control of land routes for transporting oil is quite logical. And as the concept of "God" is the CCP's sworn enemy, destroying Mecca (holy to Muslims) and especially Jerusalem (holy to all three) would be an achievable goal.

In reality, save for nukes there is no army across central Asia or the middle east that could oppose the PLA in a major land push as long as neither India or Russia was invaded, and the US is too far away.

Please, it's the police (actually their bosses- the Party) who are afraid of people who believe in Jesus. And for what reason? How is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus a threat to the communist party, really? Jesus submitted to authority, paid his taxes, and was non-violent. How is that a threat?

"Am I pushing this missionary persecution thing too far?"

No. Keep us posted on all this. I'm fascinated by it. Actually, I have a stack of posts I should write about the missionary goings on in Dalian, so maybe watch for that.

I endorse taki's last comment. We need someone on the blogosphere to expose the activities of missionaries. Anywhere else in the world and they wouldn't cause half as much damage, but this is the PRC and the rules are different. Doing something in the name of the Lord doesn't put you above the law of the land.

NHYG - China won't attempt a land war across central Asia. India and China have never been on friendly terms and if China started expanding towards that way it would intervene. Now, India alone couldn't stop China, but distance has become largely irrelevant to the technological powers, and neither the US or (To a lesser extent) EU would allow expansion in that direction, and that brings in a bundle of allies such as Japan and South Korea. China's expansion will not be military.

Taki - Christianity is very dangerous to certain forms of government. Its downplaying of secular authority can, and has, been used as an excuse to revolt. More importantly, the PRC believes that the influx of Christianity will shatter the balance that it strives so hard to maintain.

I am not fan of Chinese government but I think they are doing the right thing here. Chinese traditions and cultures are under threat by these stupid insane moronic missionaries. For once Chinese government plays the role of defender of Chinese culture.

@Taiko;

The PRC would walk a real thin line by going into central Asia and not facing India AND Russia, but if the PLA could communicate a "measured action" and back it up with nukes if Russia and India intervened (and they would intervene as a joint force).

Russia, India and the US have installations in central Asia, but they would only be speedbumps, the PLA would move with well over 100,000 troops in just one wave and none of the 3 capable defenders would be willing to risk a nuclear exchange with the PLA. Chinese leadership has never had a problem sacrificing countless Chinese lives to achieve its goals. The Europeans are too mentally weak to intervene and Japan just doesn't have enough troops or projection power.

@taki: "Jesus submitted to authority, paid his taxes, and was non-violent."

Yes, but the fundamentalists who abuse his name do not necessarily agree with those tenets of Jesus' teaching, especially when the authority in question is "those godless Commies". They are a threat because they don't preach Christianity.

@nhyrc: You're certainly right about the Europeans. The rest of what you say, well, I dunno, you've got a point, but you may well be stretching it.

NHYG - As the political situation stands now, China will not make a move towards central Asia. It would come off the worse with a nuclear exchange with Russia, and certainly with the US (The PRC only has a few missles that could evade missle defences, and those can only reach the west coast). The operative phrase, however, is "as it stands now". Any number of things might happen that could change that. For example, if Nepal falls into civil war, which is a growing possibility, China may send in a task force. Or, if the the US population becomes more isolationist it might withdraw from Asia.

But the major point is, why would China want to take central Asia? Afghanistan is a total mess, Pakistan is rapidly approaching that point, and there wouldn't be much point in taking the other -stans because China already has relatively good relations with most of them. It would be little gain for a lot of headache, particularly if the PRC continues its policy of screwing over 60% of the population (The rural workers).

What is more worrying to someone against Chinese expansion is its growing hegemony in SE Asia. Essentially, it is seeking to make its relation with the region comparable to the US's relation with Latin America.

"But the major point is, why would China want to take central Asia? "

Ignoring potential clashes with AQ and central asian independence groups sympathetic to the Uyghurs and Hui, oil is why.

China is %100 vulnerable to the US and a much lesser extent India all the way from the Strait of Hormuz to the S. China Sea. The US base in Diego Garcia and the fleet it supports alone has enough air and sea power to sink all of China's advanced surface and sub-surface fleet in a conventional battle, and sink every oil and cargo carrier in the Indian Ocean. The US roams the sea at will and only littoral AIP boats can put up a good defence, but don't have the legs to act as escorts. And with US airpower, the AIP boats could only listen as a couple of harpoon missiles send China's oil shipments to the bottom.

So securing oil rich central asian nations and the oil rich Caspian sea (a growing point of tension between the US, Iran, Russia, EU and China) would provide a more secure route for China bound oil. Vulnerable to air strikes, yes, but China has a much greater ability to defend its assets from air to ground attack than any attack at sea.

@Tiako,

You're right that China doesn't need to take over Central Asia. Its influence and economic power will automatically draw those countries toward China. The security treaty between China and Khazakstan is that China will send troops to defense the border of Khazakstan and Turkmenistan if war in Iran breaks and non-friendly (US) forces close in.
Afghanistan is important because US can use military base there to threat Russia, China and India. But the access is depends on Pakistan which is by all mean a Chinese-brother. China will likely to use port of Gawdar to facilite the oil route to Xinjiang that covers Northern China (Sittwe of Burma to Yunnan to cover Southern China). A land bridge also allow China to take oil from Iran. But the major difference is that Chinese Navy stationing in Gawdar can protect its sea-line of energy supply with a big need for blue water capability.
So keep Pakistan stable and bring them onto Chinese economic bullet train is a must.

For Chinese hegemony in SE Asia, well, that is always the case in the history. People of SE Asia can live with that. Seriously.

Fortunately, there is no god in Shenzhen--everyone bows to the big red bill. As for the story of "Joshua," I have to say that it does sound amusing and could be turned into a great comedic novel.

The Chinese navy in Gawdar is just a bunch of targets for the USN and India, and add to that Baluchistan seperatists.

If you think about anything India can dare to do against China, you are in your wet dream. Chinese Navy in Gawdar just make sure the oil from Saudi and Sudan have a very short route that can be protected. If you think USN can target them, then wait for a DF-21 drop from sky to wipe out a USN carrier battle group.

By the way, Baluchistan seperatist Mehsud and his CIA agents were wiped out by Pakistani Intelligent Servie.

I was staying out because Sha was making my points for me, but I'll add one more thing about the military situation:

As it stands now, the US could defeat China in a war. Yes, even with Chinese nukes and the Pacific Ocean, the US has a large military advantage. And the US does not seem like it will lose its military edge. China is improving its military drastically, but it is walking on a well paved road. That won't continue for much longer. Something drastic would have to happen for the US to lose its edge.

However, the point is moot, because it is completely outside of China's interest to go to war with anyone.

people:
if u want to look that a city that is messed up by missionaries, look at hong kong.
after hong kong returned to china, the protestants have expand their power to publishing and made such a huge mass.
and geesh they demonize everything that is not protestant.....
a lot of people have already complain that how come information and neccessary openness is behind China (!!! i know it is ironic but this is the trend).
end of whining. my question would be when the people contact with missionaries, can we ensure that they are recieve a netural info (sounds bs, but this is extremely critical)

"If you think USN can target them, then wait for a DF-21 drop from sky to wipe out a USN carrier battle group."

The DF-21 is a best a prototype, it has never been test fired and Russia and the US are the only two powers that have any working ballistic missile systems that could even come close. A CBG takes up more square miles than many big cities when deployed at sea.

Bad, bad China.

"If you think about anything India can dare to do against China, you are in your wet dream."

China has only a few ships with the range to attack India and the PLAAF does not have any bases that can support the PLAN in the Indian ocean, making China's few destroyers and oil ships vulnerable to whatever the Indians and USN has.

Tiako,

You are right, US still have good miltary edge, but US had even bigger edge back then in Korean War and Vietnam War and you know the results.

I don't think US has gut to pick up a fight against China. When NPT goes, guess which country has fear about small nukes blow up by nutheads?

NHYRC,

The best weapon against India is called Northestern Independance Insurgence. With both Bangladash (sp?) and Burma pouring the support, half of India will go in the chaos. Even not mention that PLA can just come down from Tibet. Indians remember that.

Well, in the Korean War, after the US was more or less caught with its pants down it redeployed its forces and pushed the not-PLA back. And Vietnam was a failure on the part of the political sector rather than the military one. The Tet Offensive, for example, almost destroyed the VietCong.

Still, point taken. The US is unlikely to start a war with a rising superpower unless it feels it has to.

Sha;

China is feeding weapons and medical supplies to the Maoists and the Burmese military to make trouble with India, but India is working with the Tibetan military resistance, and Indian muslims along with Paki muslims sympathetic to the Uyghurs and Hui and not bad China.

And look who else is helping the Indians to develop their military, both Russia and the US! When has that ever happened?

Contain, squeeze and deconstruct China.

NH,

You doesn't have enough knowledge on China. The Hui Muslim who are originally come from Central Asia, Persia and Arabia, is strong defender of Chinese nation. As matter of fact, the first ETR of Uyghur was killed by Hui troops.

There is NO Tibetan military resistance now. The old one was facilitated by CIA and Nationalists and was openly accomendated by India even when she officially denied any involvement. India paid the price at 1962 when China took India to the cleaner. After that, India expelled Tibetan forces who moved into Nepal. Later Nepal had to give up because Nepali Maoist forces caused the big trouble to the government.

As insurgences in Northeast India states, there is no need for China to do anything. Burma has the territory disputes with India on some of lands that she lost to British during three wars. Bangladesh also has its own interest on those insurgence. So if China puts the weight behind, there will be hell for India.

CIA is fully behind some of terror acts against Chinese interests in both Pakistan and Afghan, but many of US agents were wiped out by Pakistani intelligence. As matter as fact, Chinese anti-terror forces are in Pakistan right now. As the old 1,000 strong Uyghur insurgence, there is no much left right now.

"The Hui Muslim who are originally come from Central Asia, Persia and Arabia, is strong defender of Chinese nation. "

And yet they are continuously abused by provincial and local commies. They simply represent another people conquered and systematically ground into submission by Greater Han.

"There is NO Tibetan military resistance now."
Oh yes there is, and Hu's climb to power included mass killings of uppity Tibetans who organized mass protests and sit-ins when he was the occupation governor.

"India paid the price at 1962 when China took India to the cleaner. "

If the US hadn't used carrier based airplanes to keep the IAF from sending bombers to hit the PLA on the glaciers, there would not be a PLA presence in Indian or Pakistani territory.

"CIA is fully behind some of terror acts against Chinese interests in both Pakistan and Afghan, but many of US agents were wiped out by Pakistani intelligence. As matter as fact, Chinese anti-terror forces are in Pakistan right now. As the old 1,000 strong Uyghur insurgence, there is no much left right now."

The CIA and India are getting great results in Baluchistan, lots of bombed areas and dead PLA engineers. And there is still a strong Uyghur resistance that trains and gets armed in Afganistan and Pakistan.

Everyone must continue to gang up on China.

Alright, enough of this discussion. For the record, none of the above comments represent the views of this website (as if that wasn't obvious). I'd appreciate if all of you (especialy YOU, nanhe) would try to think of keeping this blog in business when you write your comments. Say what you have to say, but don't use unnecessarily inflammatory language.