The Opposite End of China || Xinjiang & Northwest China Blog (中国的另一端 || 新疆 & 中国西北博客): Joe Biden, Xinjiang, and the CIA

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August 27, 2008

Joe Biden, Xinjiang, and the CIA

Joe Biden and Deng Xiaoping party in Xinjiang like it's 1979.

With Joe Biden tapped to serve as Barack Obama's running mate and the Democratic National Convention underway, I've been thinking back to a simpler time... all the way back to 1979. It was an era when the Cold War was still hot, the Shah had just been overthrown in Iran, Deng Xiaoping had taken control of China, and Senator Joseph Biden was a young statesman trying to make his mark on the world.

Here's the story from a 1981 New York Times article revealing the existence of joint Sino-US intelligence monitoring stations in Xinjiang:

The United States and China are jointly operating an electronic intelligence-gathering station in China to monitor Soviet missile tests, according to senior American officials.

The facility was opened last year in a remote, mountainous region of the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region in western China, near the Soviet border....

Intelligence collected by the station is shared by the United States and China, officials said. The facility is furnished with American equipment and is manned by Chinese technicians. Advisers from the Central Intelligence Agency periodically visit the station.

Now, obviously Joe Biden didn't drop the CIA into Xinjiang all by himself, but his role seems to have been central...

According to information pieced together from officials in the last eight months, the idea to set up listening posts in China was first proposed to the Peking Government in 1978, before the establishment of diplomatic relations. Initially, the Chinese were reluctant to agree, apparently concerned about cooperating too closely with the United States.

The idea was pressed again after the overthrow of Shah Mohammed Riza Pahlevi in January 1979. Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., Democrat of Delaware, raised the issue with the Chinese in April 1979 when he led a Senate delegation to Peking. At the end of the visit, Senator Biden said that Deng Xiaoping, the Chinese leader, appeared sympathetic to the introduction of United States intelligence equipment into China, provided it was operated by the Chinese.

Formal agreement between the two Governments followed later in 1979, with the Chinese insisting that their technicians man the facilities and that operations be conducted in absolute secrecy.

I first heard about the monitoring stations when I was still working at NBC in New York. I had already arranged to go to Korla for a year of English teaching. NBC News' spook expert, Robert Windrem, made several comments in jest to me about the real reason I was heading to Xinjiang... as he'd heard of CIA stations based in Korla and Qitai.

It's not really clear if the stations are still in operation, though if they are I expect the equipment would have been updated to conduct more modern intelligence gathering operations rather than tracking ICBM launches. This site says the Xinjiang facilities were later linked to the ECHELON system, which to my understanding monitors any and all digital communication around the globe to glean intelligence clues for the US, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada.

More importantly, that 1999 article from Koenig's International News also suggests the sites in Xinjiang were still up and running as late as the end of the Clinton era. Congressional investigators believe the sites were still running, and wanted answers:

House and Senate investigators want to know why the U.S. and China continue to operate joint signals (SIGINT) intercept bases inside the People's Republic of China. The joint CIA/PLA bases are located at Korla and Qitai in the western province Xinjiang... In response, Clinton administration Defense Dept. officials refused to answer questions about the joint CIA/Chinese Army bases.

"We are going to have to call them in on the carpet," stated one frustrated Congressional investigator. "We certainly need to know about Korla and Qitai. The Chinese Army is setting up a SIGINT base with the Cubans to monitor U.S. military forces 90 miles from Florida. Just how much of that new PLA base is 'made in the U.S.A'?"

Wikipedia still lists the Xinjiang bases as operational on its SIGINT page, describing the sites as "operated jointly with resources from the US CIA's Office of SIGINT Operations, probably focused on missile and space activity."

For those of you who are wondering... no, I didn't make much of an effort to find the station in Korla, out of both a fear for my safety and absolutely zero in the way of coordinates or any kind of exact location. Besides, I felt that I'd already pushed things a bit far with my hunt for the mysterious white targets in the desert that I had found on Google Earth.

One thing that does strike me as odd, though. There's a "weather station" in the hills just north of Korla that looks very much like the ECHELON site seen here, except the dome is raised up on a platform much like an air traffic control tower. I visited the site once when I still had my motorcycle, and was even allowed to go to the top of the tower by a couple of farmer-types that lived near the base and had the keys. There were a bunch of big computers on the top floor, but of course I couldn't see inside the dome... I wonder?

Anyway, Obama/Biden for President/Vice President 2008!

U.S. AND PEKING JOIN IN TRACKING MISSILES IN SOVIET
By PHILIP TAUBMAN, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: June 18, 1981

The United States and China are jointly operating an electronic intelligence-gathering station in China to monitor Soviet missile tests, according to senior American officials.

The facility was opened last year in a remote, mountainous region of the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region in western China, near the Soviet border. Two key Soviet missile-testing bases are at Leninsk, near the Aral Sea, and at Sary-Shagan, near Lake Balkhash. Leninsk is 500 miles from the nearest point on the Chinese border, Sary-Shagan 300 miles.

The establishment of the listening post involved a far deeper level of military cooperation between Washington and Peking than either Government had publicly acknowledged. Sensitive Military Relationship

In Peking yesterday, at the conclusion of talks with Chinese leaders, Secretary of State Alexander M. Haig Jr. announced that the United States had decided in principle to sell arms to China. The United States had previously sold China only nonlethal military equipment.

Operation of the facility, which was not mentioned by Mr. Haig, brought the two nations into a sensitive, secret military relationship during the Carter Administration.

Officials said the post has filled a ''critical'' vacuum created when similar stations in Iran were abandoned during the Iranian revolution two years ago. They described the facility as one of Washington's most sensitive and important intelligence operations. Shared by the Two Nations

Intelligence collected by the station is shared by the United States and China, officials said. The facility is furnished with American equipment and is manned by Chinese technicians. Advisers from the Central Intelligence Agency periodically visit the station.

American officials sought to keep the existence of the station secret, fearing that disclosure could adversely affect relations between the Soviet Union and the United States, and heighten tensions between the Soviet Union and China. In recent days, however, information about the operation has begun circulating openly here.

Soviet leaders, American officials said, are already seriously troubled by the growing relationship between Washington and Peking. They said the Soviet Union may already know about the facility but had not felt it necessary to respond because its presence was not a public embarrassment to them.

Anatoly F. Dobrynin, the Soviet Ambassador, in a meeting with American officials at the State Department today, condemned United States plans to lift restrictions on the sale of arms to China.

Disclosure of the monitoring post, officials here said, could also unsettle internal affairs in China, where moderate leaders may be vulnerable to charges that they made secret deals with the United States.

According to information pieced together from officials in the last eight months, the idea to set up listening posts in China was first proposed to the Peking Government in 1978, before the establishment of diplomatic relations. Initially, the Chinese were reluctant to agree, apparently concerned about cooperating too closely with the United States.

The idea was pressed again after the overthrow of Shah Mohammed Riza Pahlevi in January 1979. Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., Democrat of Delaware, raised the issue with the Chinese in April 1979 when he led a Senate delegation to Peking. At the end of the visit, Senator Biden said that Deng Xiaoping, the Chinese leader, appeared sympathetic to the introduction of United States intelligence equipment into China, provided it was operated by the Chinese.

Formal agreement between the two Governments followed later in 1979, with the Chinese insisting that their technicians man the facilities and that operations be conducted in obsolute secrecy. Surveys for Two Sites Made

Surveys for two facilities were made. The Chinese eventually agreed to permit only one, officials said. The site in western China is close to ideal, officials said, because it allows monitoring of Soviet missile tests from launch through flight over Siberia to dispersion of warheads. It does not permit monitoring of the final stages of flight, including the reentry of the warheads.

The monitoring of missile tests is critical to the verification of Soviet compliance with key provisions of strategic arms agreements. It permits the United States, for example, to detect whether new missiles are being developed.

The performance characteristics of missiles are detected in a number of ways, including tracing the missile with radar and monitoring data transmitted by radio signals. Test Range Over Siberia

Typically, the United States would be seeking to determine the number of warheads the missile being tested can carry, its range, and the accuracy of re-entry vehicles that carry the warheads. Analysis of the information can show whether the missile is a new or old model or a variant.

The Soviet test base at Leninsk is used for testing intercontinental ballistic missiles, officials said. The test range extends out over Siberia, with re-entry over the Kamchatka Peninsula or the western Pacific.

The base at Sary-Shagan is used for testing antiballistic missile systems, according to officials. The listening post in China can track tests from both sites, beginning with the launch. Since normalization of relations between the United States and China in January 1979, the two nations have moved swiftly to forge a close friendship, marked by expanding trade and military cooperation.

The operation of a joint intelligence facility targeted on the Soviet Union, however, goes beyond any declared military cooperation.

posted August 27, 2008 at 09:04 AM unofficial Xinjiang time | HaoHao This!

Comments

does this make the station a potential target of the Soviet nuclear force?

The comment above was posted by chengduboy at August 27, 2008 10:21 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

"One frustrated Congressional investigator." Ah, Congress, always looking to screw up perfectly good intelligence-gathering projects in the pursuit of a fifteen-second sound bite on the evening news.

Sometimes it's better to let the other side know what you've got. Hasn't the Pentagon been showing Chinese officers around NORAD, and getting tours of the equivalent Chinese control facilities in return? And we had (and still have) the Open Skies Treaty between the NATO countries and the Warsaw Pact countries, allowing mutual inspection flights.

If there's something in Florida (or Guantanamo) that shouldn't be heard, the solution is simple and direct: use landlines, or satellites, or line-of-sight microwaves, or frequency-hopping, or encryption. A listening post on the other side of the world is unrelated to the issue at hand.

The comment above was posted by Tom at August 27, 2008 10:51 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

By the way, this is a satellite photo of the strange "weather station" in Korla that I was talking about, from Google Maps.

The comment above was posted by michael at August 28, 2008 12:20 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@ Michael,

thanks for this great piece. Not sure if its still functioning but during the 1980s-90s there was a listening station manned at times by American personnel near Ghulja
(Yining). Both locals and lao wei had seen it on the outskirts of town. Any info on that? The buildings/domes etc may still be there if its not in use.

The comment above was posted by spec at August 28, 2008 03:36 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

I would not be surprised if these bases are still supported by the CIA, though if they are hopefully the CIA is not bringing the sort of high-tech equipment from the states that the U.S. government is trying to prevent businesses from selling to China.

You have a very good and interesting blog. Since you have lived in China and in particular Xinjiang, I would be very curious of your opinion on a piece I wrote recently on China:

http://forumforforeignaffairs.blogspot.com/search?q=A+Lengthy+Analysis+of+China

Perhaps you would even consider linking to it? In exchange I would link to your site.

The comment above was posted by fpguru at August 28, 2008 06:27 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@chengduboy

hey cdboy arent China and Russia the best of buddies now? Hasnt the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) brought them close together?

The comment above was posted by spec at August 28, 2008 07:15 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

China: 2 policemen dead in ethnic group clash

(CNN) -- A confrontation in western China has killed two police officers and led authorities to detain at least 20 members of the Uighur ethnic group, according to an international organization that represents Uighur interests.

Two officers were killed, more were severely injured and others suffered slight injuries in a confrontation on Wednesday between Uighurs and police, said Dilxat Raxit, a spokesman for the the World Uighur Congress, which is based in Germany.

A Chinese police spokesman, however, said she was unaware of any police deaths or of any incident in the region in question.

The clash happened in Jiashi County, about 62 miles (100 km) from the city of Kashgar, Raxit said. That is in China's Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, also known as East Turkistan, a region that is home to a Sunni Muslim ethnic minority.

Uighurs in Xinjiang are supposed to enjoy regional autonomy, as guaranteed by China's constitution, but some want independence.

Millions of Han Chinese, the country's dominant ethnic group, have migrated into Xinjiang over the past 60 years, prompting complaints that they dominate local politics, culture and commerce at the expense of the Uighurs.

The dissatisfaction has turned violent at times.

On August 4, an attack killed 16 police officers in Kashgar.

Police have detained several hundreds Uighurs as a result of that incident, and they've detained at least 20 as a result of clashes Wednesday, Raxit said.

The comment above was posted by michael at August 28, 2008 07:28 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Another piece of news about Korla, from the Financial Times:

Xinjiang oil boom fuels Uighur resentment

By Jamil Anderlini in Korla, Xinjiang

Published: August 28 2008 17:11 | Last updated: August 28 2008 17:11

“Offer energy resources as tribute [to Beijing] to create harmony” proclaims a giant billboard outside a petrol station in Korla, in China’s restive western frontier region of Xinjiang.

The increasing importance of the Muslim-dominated Xinjiang autonomous region as a source of the energy and minerals needed to fuel China’s booming eastern cities is raising the stakes for Beijing in its battle against separatists agitating for an independent state.

“The Chinese didn’t want to let Xinjiang be independent before, but after they built all the oilfields, it became absolutely impossible,” said one Muslim resident in Korla, who asked not to be named for fear of retribution by government security agents.

The desert around the city is punctuated every kilometre or two by oil and gas derricks, each of them topped with the red Chinese national flag, an assertion of sovereignty over every inch of the energy-rich ground.

Korla itself is an important junction on the 4,200km-long west-east gas pipeline that carries natural gas from Xinjiang to Shanghai.

A brand new airport, high-rise office blocks and scores of new apartment complexes are proof that the city is reaping the fruits of an energy boom that has seen annual natural gas production in the surrounding Tarim Basin increase 20 times between 2000 and 2007. But the vast majority of profits from the industry are sent back east, along with the oil and gas.

In 2005, Xinjiang’s local government was allotted only Rmb240m ($35m, €24m, £19m) out of the Rmb14.8bn in tax revenue from the petrochemical industries that are based in the region.

In Korla, the oil industry is under the control of a subsidiary of PetroChina, the state-owned energy giant, which answers directly to its head office in Beijing.

“We don’t have the power to tell them to do anything – they only listen to their bosses in Beijing,” said one local government official who asked not to be named.

Many of Korla’s original Uighur residents feel they have missed out altogether on the few benefits that have trickled down to the region from the rapid extraction of its energy resources.

Mineral exploration began in the Tarim Basin at the start of last century but it was not until 1958, nearly a decade after the Chinese Communist revolution and the re-conquest of Xinjiang, that the first oilfield went into production.

At that time Uighurs, a Muslim Turkic people with stronger links to central Asia than the rest of China, were the only inhabitants. Today, Han Chinese from central and eastern provinces make up 70 per cent of the population in Korla.

“A lot of Uighurs say this whole area used to belong to them, and now they are strangers in their own home,” said Xie, a shopkeeper whose parents were sent out to Korla from their native Hunan province in the 1950s to work in a bomb-making factory for the People’s Liberation Army. “Some of them are very angry and they’re causing more and more trouble these days.”

Uighur resentment has been exacerbated by a massive security operation timed to coincide with the Olympic and Paralympic Games period. Under the auspices of ensuring a “peaceful Olympics”, the government has set up roadblocks and security checks and dispatched armed street patrols, all of which has failed to stop a number of attacks by suspected separatists in recent weeks that have left more than 30 dead. Two policemen were killed on Thursday in a clash with armed Uighurs.

At a checkpoint outside Korla, “wanted” posters display the mugshots and personal details of 11 Uighurs, some as young as 17, who are being pursued for the crime of selling banned literature, including DVDs and books on the creation of an Islamic state.

Amnesty International says Xinjiang is the only part of China where people are regularly executed for political offences.

“There are a lot of people who want Xinjiang to be independent of China but we personally don’t even dare think those thoughts,” said one Uighur in Korla when asked what he thought of the separatist cause.

On Petrochemical Boulevard, the main street in Korla, the only visible Uighurs are street cleaners and the odd waiter hanging out in the doorway of a Muslim restaurant.

Locals say Uighurs are sometimes given low-level jobs in the oilfields, but there are none in management positions in Korla. In spite of affirmative action programmes that reserve a proportion of official posts for minority groups, all government and military positions with any real power are held by Han Chinese.

PetroChina and its Korla subsidiary refused to be interviewed, but one former employee said discrimination was rife within the company.

“There used to be two Uighurs driving for the oil company here,” said this former employee, who asked to be known only by his surname, Ma. “But they were moved to a different work unit because the bosses think Muslims are all terrorists and separatists.”

The comment above was posted by Heverci at August 28, 2008 10:45 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

@Heverci: Thanks for that article on Korla.

The comment above was posted by michael at August 28, 2008 10:51 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Details of the attack in Payziwat (Ch: Jiashi) County from RFA:

Chinese Police Killed, Wounded in New Clash
2008-08-28

Unarmed Uyghur police come under attack while searching for suspects in an August clash.

HONG KONG—Two ethnic Uyghur police officers have been killed and at least two critically injured in a new clash near the Silk Road city of Kashgar, according to authoritative sources and witnesses.

The two dead and wounded officers all belong to the Muslim Uyghur ethnic group, according to police and the chief nurse at Peyzawat [in Chinese, Jiashi] county hospital. “All of them were stabbed,” the nurse said.

“Two of them died at the hospital today [Wednesday] and two of them have been sent to the Kashgar Prefecture Hospital because they were in critical condition.”

The nurse, who asked not to be named, said they were brought to the hospital after a clash in Qizilboy village, Jiashi county.

“Six or seven people came out and attacked them with knives,” an officer who witnessed the attack said. “Two officers died at the scene—one was the village police chief. Four others were wounded, and four of us escaped.”

A Jiashi county government official, contacted by telephone, confirmed that all the victims had been hospitalized with knife wounds. “They all work for the government,” he said.

The Jiashi county Public Security Bureau declined to comment in detail. “We have not received instructions as to what to say. You should call the command center. We are waiting to receive the specifics from them,” an officer on duty said.

Searching for suspect

The deputy Jiashi county police chief, Omerjan, said in an interview that the police officers—all members of the Uyghur Muslim minority—were searching a cornfield following a tip that a woman suspected of aiding assailants in an earlier attack was hiding there.

“We didn’t expect to come under attack in that cornfield,” Omerjan said. “They [the police] didn’t carry any weapons. Now there are 500 armed Chinese troops searching house to house in the area. It has been almost nine hours, but we still haven’t found anyone.”

In August, assailants attacked a checkpoint in Yamanya town, in Shule county, in which three guards were killed. Following the Yamanya attack, police arrested a Uyghur woman, Anargul, 50. On Wednesday, they were searching for her daughter, indentified as Amangul, 22, according to Omerjan, on suspicion that she aided the Yamanya assailants.

Seven people are sought in connection with the Yamanya attack. Police have identified five of those suspects as Abdurehim Ehet, Keyim Bawudun, Imam Hesen, Hesen Hoshur, and Abdusalam Sultan. Names of the remaining two were unavailable.

“After the Yamanya incident, we organized large public gatherings and asked people to help us find the suspects. We also said we would offer a 50,000-yuan reward to anyone who helped. But still nobody has come forward,” Omerjan said.

All of the officers were unarmed, the deputy police chief and the officer who took part in the search said. The officer added that Uyghur police are generally barred from carrying weapons.

Twenty of the 21 police working in the local police station are Uyghurs and one is Han Chinese, he said. The station owns only two firearms, both of which are locked in storage.

Stepped-up campaign

Exiled Uyghurs meanwhile say authorities in the troubled Xinjiang region have stepped up a campaign to quell separatism among Uyghurs there, making numerous arrests and setting up checkpoints following the worst outbreak of violence there in a decade.

The Munich-based World Uyghur Congress, citing communications from the town of Kucha in Xinjiang, said residents there have been barred from travelling outside their own county, with a half-dozen military checkpoints set up to prevent travel.

Kucha was the site of an Aug. 10 attack in which 15 ethnic Uyghurs staged attacks on prominent government buildings, killing a security guard and a civilian. Eight of the attackers were killed and two committed suicide.

Six days earlier, according to China’s official media, 16 police officers died when a group of Uyghurs attacked them with knives and homemade explosives.

No group has claimed responsibility for the deadly bombings and stabbings in August, but police have blamed Uyghur “terrorists.”

The World Uyghur Congress also said hundreds of Uyghurs have been detained in connection with the attacks. No official comment was immediately available.

The comment above was posted by Heverci at August 28, 2008 11:01 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Joe Biden has a really really high IQ: Joe Blowhard Biden. America is so lucky to have such smart people in our government.

The comment above was posted by ouyang at August 29, 2008 09:46 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

There is also a very unusual weather/radar/military installation not far outside of Litang, Sichuan on the road to Kangding, that looks very similar to the one in Korla. Maybe a cloud seeding site, or maybe a Litang Horse Festival protest intel gathering site?

The comment above was posted by Rukasu at August 29, 2008 04:43 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

Police in China shoot dead 6 suspects in Xinjiang

By HENRY SANDERSON – 4 minutes ago

BEIJING (AP) — Chinese police investigating a spate of attacks this month in western Xinjiang province shot dead six suspects and arrested three others, state media reported.

An exile group, meanwhile, accused police Saturday of gunning down the suspects, members of the Muslim Uighur ethnic minority, after they surrendered.

Police encountered nine suspects in a corn field near the far western city of Kashgar on Friday evening, the official Xinhua News Agency reported. The suspects had knives and tried to resist arrest, putting up a "desperate struggle," it said late Friday.

A policeman and a local militia man were wounded in the clash, the report said.

Initial investigations linked the suspects to attacks on Aug. 12 and Aug. 27, Xinhua said. The report gave no other details.

Dilxat Raxit, spokesman for the Germany-based World Uighur Congress, said armed police surrounded the corn field and asked the Uighur men through a loudspeaker to surrender themselves, promising to provide them with lawyers.

The suspects did not resist arrest and police with submachine guns opened fire after they had surrendered, Raxit said in a statement Saturday, citing accounts by local Uighurs.

An official from the Xinjiang government — speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media — said six suspects were shot dead. But he denied the men had been shot after surrendering and called the allegations "nonsense."

The predominantly Muslim region of Xinjiang saw three deadly attacks blamed on Uighur separatists before and during and the Beijing Olympics. Videos appeared online with self-professed Uighur militant groups threatening the games.

On Aug. 12, attackers jumped from a vehicle and stabbed civilian guards, killing three at a roadside checkpoint in Yamanya town, near Kashgar. The assailants escaped. Two Chinese policemen died and seven more were wounded after a clash Wednesday in a village in Jiashi county.

No one has claimed responsibility for any of the attacks. Government officials have blamed Uighur militants.

China has long said that insurgents among the region's dominant ethnic Uighurs are leading an Islamic separatist movement in Xinjiang — an oil and gas-rich region on the border with Afghanistan, Pakistan and six Central Asian nations.

The Uighurs are Turkic-speaking Muslims with a language and culture distinct from the majority of Chinese.

Critics accuse Beijing of using claims of terrorism as an excuse to crack down on peaceful, pro-independence sentiment and expressions of Uighur identity.

The comment above was posted by Heverci at August 30, 2008 10:26 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

There is a possibility that the mysterious circular buildings in desert are chinese version of airplane navigation towers. They basically send out two signals. One sort of like a strobe(timing), the other likes a flashlight constantly turning. In cockpit an instrument will show you the relative position of your airplane to this particular tower and the distance from it. They can position something like 100 miles apart.

Another possibility is, these are "radar signal relay stations". But unlikely these buildings are circular in shape. They are positioned much closer, since radar signals can not travel too far. This way one can monitor air traffic from hundred miles away.

No matter what, all these "shacks" usually are located in very remote places.

Japanese are able to miniaturize the radar relay equipments to the point that nobody can tell what is what.

For confirmation on navigation towers one might look up chinese air flight navigation maps.

The comment above was posted by Jonathan at August 30, 2008 12:45 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

The purpose of a "dome" is 90% for the protection of equipments from desert storm, heat, snow all these elements. My guess is, there are radar antennas inside.

The comment above was posted by Jonathan at August 30, 2008 01:10 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

I am still voting for Obama but this stuff needs to be put out in the media in light of current relations with China and how our corporations behave.

I'm disgusted.

The comment above was posted by nanheyangrouchuan at September 6, 2008 11:46 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

So much for Joe Biden being part of Obama's "change" bandwaggon (unless the change slogan is really just a cynical ploy to make people think Obama really represents change with his choice of an old senator with 30 years in Congress).

Shane Sheibani

The comment above was posted by Shane Sheibani at October 7, 2008 08:08 PM unofficial Xinjiang time.

There is also a very unusual weatherradar/military installation not far outside of Litang, Sichuan on the road to Kangding, that looks very similar to the one in Korla. Maybe a cloud seeding site, or maybe a Litang Horse Festival protest intel gathering site?

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The comment above was posted by emlaksay at January 13, 2010 01:06 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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The comment above was posted by emlaksay at January 13, 2010 01:08 AM unofficial Xinjiang time.

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