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May 29, 2008
After Quake, Criticism Returns
I'm not the first person to observe that China's pre-earthquake troubles more or less vanished in the week or two after the disaster in Sichuan. Torch relay? Tibet riots? CNN? Xinjiang protests? The list of issues threatening to disrupt the harmonization of the pre-Olympic atmosphere kept growing bigger, and bigger, and bigger... until, poof!
It's sort of like the U.S. being pulled out of the Great Depression by World War II... no one wanted a World War — or the deaths of tens of millions of people — but we were sure glad to say goodbye to tent camps for the homeless in Central Park.
There are some signs, though, of a return to normalcy in the international back-and-forth between China and the West. Senator Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) last week authored an unusually strongly worded resolution calling on China to release Uyghur political prisoners and to preserve Xinjiang's cultural and linguistic heritage:
Etcetera, etcetera, etc.
Sorry for the long image, but there are pages and pages more where that came from if you feel like reading the complete text. Senator Brown also spoke after the resolution was entered into the record, first acknowledging the devastation of the earthquake and then quickly turning to criticism of the Chinese government.
My prayers are with the people of Sichuan Province and all those brave men and women who are there now providing support as volunteers, especially providing support to the Chinese people in Sichuan Province.
I wish to focus on something else in China. This isn't the Chinese people, it is the actions of a few people at the top of the Chinese Government—actions we must confront.
If you ask me, the resolution was introduced at a strange time, unless the Senator was looking to fulfill some responsibility with a minimum of attention. Was this a case of something being buried when no one was looking?
Also, the Senator made a statement of questionable accuracy when he said:
As China rolls out the red carpet to welcome hundreds of thousands of tourists and as Olympic-related media flock to Beijing to watch the events, no one will be allowed to go to Tibet, no one will be allowed to go to the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, no one will be allowed to see the hundreds of political prisons, no one will be allowed to visit the areas of China where hundreds of millions live in abject poverty.
The question of tourism in Tibet is still unsettled, but I've never heard of any restrictions on travel to Xinjiang. And areas of the country where "abject poverty" exists? As anyone who's traveled outside of Beijing or Shanghai knows, that's most of China. Last I checked, poor farming and mining villages were still accessible.
I've got to give the Senator credit for one thing: U-Y-G-H-U-R. That's my personally preferred spelling for the major minority ethnic group living in Xinjiang, although U-I-G-H-U-R is more common.
Also, check out Nick Kristof's op-ed piece today from Kashgar, in which he's trailed by the PSB and ends up surprised by the lack of intense antipathy towards the Han felt by most Uyghurs:
“Nobody likes it when the Chinese all move in here,” said a Uighur shop-keeper. “Of course, we’re all upset. But what can we do?”
One young woman offered a different take. “When I was a little kid, my mom would tell me, ‘Don’t wander or the Han Chinese will steal you away. They eat human flesh.’ ” She laughed and added: “But now we see more Han, and we’re not afraid of them. Relations are O.K.”
Some young Uighurs criticized the Beijing Olympics, saying the Games will drain local budgets. But I could have found stronger anti-government sedition on any street corner of Manhattan.
You can read the text of Sen. Brown's speech about Xinjiang below. Please don't take my posting of S. RES. 574 and Brown's remarks as an endorsement of his sentiment. All I want is to provide you with provocative information... and let you argue it out amongst yourselves.
••••
Sen. Sherrod Brown's speech after introduction of S. RES. 574
22 May 2008
Congressional Record
Mr. BROWN: Mr. President, the Chinese people have endured an unspeakable tragedy, as we know, with the loss of tens of thousands in a major earthquake. Those numbers continue to grow. On the radio this morning, I heard it looks like more than 50,000 Chinese people have died in one of the greatest tragedies of the last decade. My prayers are with the people of Sichuan Province and all those brave men and women who are there now providing support as volunteers, especially providing support to the Chinese people in Sichuan Province.
I wish to focus on something else in China. This isn't the Chinese people, it is the actions of a few people at the top of the Chinese Government—actions we must confront. When I say "only a few people at the top," the Chinese Government is called the People's Republic of China for a reason. It is a Communist government, a very top-line hierarchical system, where a few people at the top enjoy so much of the benefits and so much of the power and they wield that so unfairly and immorally and, many times, against so many in their country.
For us to ignore the behavior of the Chinese Government, to dismiss that behavior, to minimize that behavior is a reprehensible act on our part.
In a little more than 3 months, the world will witness one of its great quadrennial events—the summer Olympic Games. The games have been billed as a way for the host, China, to reintroduce itself—a new China, if you will—to the international community. And China has pulled out all the stops: $38 billion in infrastructure improvements, including a brandnew 91,000-seat stadium, 300 miles of new roads, and an entirely new terminal at Beijing's International Airport, all because of the Olympic Games.
What China will not be highlighting is its human rights record. That is because it is abysmally disgraceful.
As China rolls out the red carpet to welcome hundreds of thousands of tourists and as Olympic-related media flock to Beijing to watch the events, no one will be allowed to go to Tibet, no one will be allowed to go to the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, no one will be allowed to see the hundreds of political prisons, no one will be allowed to visit the areas of China where hundreds of millions live in abject poverty.
Last year, Amnesty International—a no more respected and fairminded group in the world—said of China:
An increased number of . . . journalists were harassed, detained, and jailed. Thousands of people who pursued their faith outside officially sanctioned churches were subjected to harassment and many to detention and imprisonment. Thousands of people were sentenced to death of executed. Migrants from rural areas were deprived of basic rights.
The Presiding officer, from the State of Rhode Island, has talked passionately about the freedom of the press and journalism in countries where we have the kind of relationship we have with China and how important it is. Others in this body have talked about human rights and labor rights, and now China has violated those values we hold dear and that international organizations that serve all of the world hold so dear.
Beijing will continue to attempt to paint its repressive regime during the Olympics in the best light possible, as we have seen in the last month with the unnerving events in Tibet. The repression in Tibet, a region similar in its treatment by the government as the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, is nothing new. For almost 60 years, Tibetans have survived under Beijing repression. Tibet was swallowed up by China in 1950. The Uyghur Autonomous Region was swallowed up by China the year before.
China's policy is straightforward: Declare war on human rights, bring in native Chinese for the best jobs, eradicate the indigenous culture, the language, the spiritual center, disperse the population. It seems to have worked for China's interest every time.
China's policies keep import prices low by allowing inhumane treatment of [S4807] workers, slave wages, and unsafe working conditions have become all too common.
China, the Communist regime, has become China, the world's largest one-company town where workers are interchangeable, replaceable parts and where members of the Communist Party are its shareholders.
The United States as purportedly the world leader in human rights—we talk about exporting democracy, we brag about our values, yet out business is with encouragement and incentives—unbelievably enough, sometimes from our own Government—even though we say we are the world leader in human rights. The United States should not be endorsing in any way the brutal and horrific policies of the Chinese Government. Again, the United States, by our actions by the Government and by business do not seem so interested oftentimes in human rights in China in spite of what we say. We should not be sacrificing our moral compass at the altar of the dollar. We do that way too often.
I met with Rabiya Kadeer, the Uyghur dissident leader and head of the Uyghur American Association. She told me of her time in prison for political advocacy on behalf of her people. She spent 6 long years in prison, arrested in 1999 on her way to a meeting with foreign activists and leaders. She told me of her children who either live in fear or live in prison because of her advocacy on behalf of basic freedoms for the 12 or 13 million Uyghur people. She told me of her exile. She is not allowed to return to her native country.
We need the strength to stand up to rather than apologize for China's brutal regime. This has been the systematic policy of a highly efficient and powerful central government.
The Chinese Uyghurs have long fought for more autonomy from Beijing and greater freedom to practice their Muslim religion.
This is not a new policy. We have seen the same in the Zinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region where ethnic Uyghur people have been systematically relocated and repressed. Their Turkic language is prohibited, their women are placed into forced labor, especially young women taken out of the Autonomous Region to other parts of China, in many cases to be slave labor, forced labor, in other cases to be sex slaves, and their political leaders are jailed. Yet we allow China into the World Health Organization, the World Trade Organization, and made them a preferred trading partner.
Communities across America feel the reverberations of this policy. Not only does it blacken our name as a country when China violates every kind of human rights we care about, but then it affects our country in so many other ways.
We have lost more than 3 million manufacturing jobs across this country since President Bush has been President. Many of these jobs have been eliminated because of government-subsidized imports from China, because of cheating on currency rules, and because of direct off shoring to countries such as China.
China gives their manufacturers that unfair competitive advantage by manipulating its currency and providing massive subsidies to its industry. We know all that. American companies have been complicit by hiring Chinese subcontractors and forcing those subcontractors to continue to cut costs, meaning contaminated vitamins, contaminated pharmaceuticals, and dangerous toxic lead-based paint on toys.
I am submitting a resolution today calling on the Chinese to free the Kadeer children, free the Uyghur political prisoners, and end the political, religious, and ethnic repression in that part of China.
I ask my colleagues to take a look at this resolution, to meet with Ms. Kadeer and to join me in working to bring the atrocities against the Uyghur people to an end. Instead of welcoming China, celebrating China, and trading with China on their terms, as we all talk about the great quadrennial events of the international Olympic Games, we should be helping China's repressed. We should not indulge China its abuses. It dishonors our own values.
posted May 29, 2008 at 10:50 AM unofficial Xinjiang time | HaoHao This!
Comments
Interesting. Yup, the CCP got a "get out of jail free card," so to speak. But, methinks there are a lot of quake-affected people who are beginning to ask the question, "where's my help?" amidst all the media attention the government is giving itself in projecting their benevolence. This could come back to bite them in the bum and I don't think their propaganda machines are properly thinking this through.
The CCP mafia ( I use Hu Jia's words) will definitely use the above censure to unite the people, not only in this time of crisis, but against a "mean-spirited country" too. Geez, I don't disagree with the U.S congress, but you'd think they'd have worked CHina out by now.
Back to business then... the old tug-of-war continues.
Posted by: jimba at May 29, 2008 12:09 PM
@ Jimba
I agree with your take on this. God points.
Another issue will be when peopel start getting angry bout the shoddy materials which caused so many deaths; and may still when the dams crack apart. Two tremors yesterday destroyed 420,000 homes with 63 "reported" injuries. So the stuff is still going down like dominoes every where. Its not over. THE ISSUE HERE IS CHINA'S RAPID DEVELOPEMNT - its economic miracle. At what price?? shoddy whack em up buildings and structures all over the country to give the semblance of progress and p[rosperity for all but in fact no real progress at all. If developeme,nt is not built too last then its no real developemnt at all. Cheap, cheap structures do not speak of development but a quick dolar profit to speculators and guess who many of them were? the CCP right. True development found in developed countries is under-giorded by qulaity and expense.
So the quake wil also bring added disasters for the CCP and a deeper questioning domestically and internationally on what is the true nature of China's development. Hubris is the new buzzword.
Building dams with inferior products is both delusional and dishonest..Gee I hope the Three Gorges will hold when all that water rushes down the Chang Jiang beginning ummm, next week when the spring storms in the Sichuan hinterland start filling things up - pray for drought.
Posted by: James at May 29, 2008 01:11 PM
LOL
Interesting?
No, we have grown accustomed to these garbage of USA documents.
The United States has created so much garbage that aimed at interference in internal affairs of other countries under the pretext of human right.
I can only tell you one word, such things do not have any binding in China.
In return， when we China get stronger some day, we will be concerned about minority's human rights in the United States.
Posted by: dyn at May 29, 2008 01:33 PM
I'm always surprised that more countries don't take the US to task for obvious internal deficiencies... racial, judicial, economic, legal, political, etc. Is the US alone in issuing so many useless "resolutions" that muck up international diplomacy while achieving absolutely nothing?
Posted by: michael at May 29, 2008 02:10 PM
Kristof just wrote a piece from Kashgar. The most pertinant part to me personally is the quote:
"Unfortunately, the Bush administration has largely backed this Chinese version of the war on terror. Indeed, a Department of Justice report this month suggests that American troops softened up Uighur prisoners in Guantánamo Bay on behalf of visiting Chinese interrogators. The American troops starved the Uighurs and prevented them from sleeping, just before inviting in the Chinese interrogators."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/opinion/29kristof.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Posted by: SittingHere at May 29, 2008 02:24 PM
@SittingHere: Please read the whole post before commenting. I mention Kristof's op-ed up above.
Posted by: michael at May 29, 2008 02:36 PM
Are western countries judge or moral?
Absolutely No, they are just holders of super power.
Uyghur&Tibetant splittist and terrorist are just dolls and puppets of these super anti-China power.
China are eager to gain this kind of super poewer.
China are gaining such strength.
when China gain this power, Uyghur&Tibetant will love their China like Blacks and Indians love the United States.
when China gain this power, Uyghur&Tibetant will be proud to being an Uyghur Chinese, a Tibetant Chinese.
so, China should rise and must rise.
they will the United States proud
Posted by: dyn at May 29, 2008 02:49 PM
@ Dyn, no country wants China as a super-power just yet because there is just too much it has yet to prove, for instance, political and civil rights. Sure, China has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go and with India, the world's biggest democracy also rising, don't count your chicken's before they catch sport.
Posted by: dyn at May 29, 2008 03:41 PM
@dyn
re:
"Uyghur&Tibetant splittist and terrorist are just dolls and puppets of these super anti-China power."
Ive already told yu elsewhere I think yu belong in the lunatic asylum but I'd like to respond to your inanities again for the sake of others like yu who may still have hope.
It is convenient to paint the Uyghgur and Tibetans as puppets or dolls as yu put it of the superpower. This view of yours robs them of their own intelligence and aspirations - they can only be manipulated. Your view is CCP view that tehy are children who need guidance of big brother Han. Paternalism is what this attitude is known as. The Uyghur and the Tibetans are far more sophisticated than the Han as tehy are far more oppressed and know fully what they want without being manipulated. It suits the CCP to tell the brainwashed Chinese such things for it 'explains' to the brainwashed Han 'why' "Chinese" citizens within PRC are not happy. THEY MUST BE THE DOLLS OF OTHER POWERS - This is Maoist propanda and Dyn yu still believe it - yu are a relic of pre-reform China.
"when China gain this power, Uyghur&Tibetant will be proud to being an Uyghur Chinese, a Tibetant Chinese."
as the previous post said dont be so arrogant to assume China will rise as a power - it may fall to pieces very soon - the earthquake is also symbolic of the shaking of China soon to come and yu better be ready for that. Also if it did happen that they rose to power - yeah some Tibetans and Uyghur would be proud - some are already - but the majority will never give up their identity and their desire for their own country. That will also come. Your view is full of hubris and delusion and you have spouted this so many times on so many threads. Its just so boring and typical. Nobody takes yu seriously. Are there any intelligent thinking Han Chinese left?
and can yu please write in a form of English that makes sense. Your idiocy and primitive reasoning and blood lust and moronic nationalism and vicious hatred of your "own" minorities is hard enough to deal with let alone trying to decipher the crap yu write as English. Get a 'how to write simple English' help book from XINHUA bookshop.
Posted by: James at May 29, 2008 06:01 PM
It sounds from the Kristof article that the Uighurs are reacting to the Chinese much like the Mongolians in Inner Mongolia.
The difference with Tibet? First, accessibility -- Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang got railroads much earlier than Tibet. But also, the Dalai Lama. There's no such thing for the Uighurs or the Mongolians.
So the CCP's policy of waiting for the Dalai Lama to reincarnate -- will it work? I really don't know. Maybe things will break one way and the new Dalai won't have nearly as much authority (and nobody in the West pays any attention to the Panchen yet, though perhaps this will change when the Dalai reincarnates). Or maybe they'll break the other way. But one thing is certain -- no change to the status quo in Tibet without something happening with the Dalai Lama.
@James: Why don't you go on to a Chinese board and write some perfectly grammatical Chinese.
Posted by: Realist at May 29, 2008 07:34 PM
Thank you sooo much,
Finally somebody, told this nazi freak sth that almost every Uigur and Tibetant you..you friggin US nationalist moron, 'proud uigur and tibetant my a**' we don't want that...foreigners like you..i really wish Chinese government saw all this bs here, (maybe they will) and then just deport your nasty a** back to whatever stinky lil place you're coming from...\
get a g/f dude...you just waste your and our time here...
Posted by: Thank You at May 29, 2008 07:49 PM
"I'm always surprised that more countries don't take the US to task for obvious internal deficiencies... racial, judicial, economic, legal, political, etc. Is the US alone in issuing so many useless "resolutions" that muck up international diplomacy while achieving absolutely nothing?"
Michael, there are two main reasons on the racial front. One is that racism in the US is not government mandated as it is in China. Yes, there are racists in the US, but they are just people. The PRC, on the other hand, has government programs for the express purpose of quashing culture. The other reason is progress. While the US is far from perfect, it is getting much better. The most obvious proof is that the next president of the US will, in all likelihood, be black. What are the chances that the next Chairman will be a Uighur, or a Tibetan, or a Manchu? None.
And here is the big thing: The US is a democracy. That means that its flaws can easily be solved by purely internal means because the American people can, and do, complain publicly and with whatever language they wish in order to solve internal problems. In China, on the other hand, when, say, several thousand students gather in, say Tiananmen Square to protest aspects of the government, tanks get sent in and possibly thousands die.
So there is the difference. The US is not a brutal, backwards authoritarian tyranny.
Posted by: Tiako at May 30, 2008 12:48 AM
I think this resulution come in right time, as China has already started immigrating some homeless people from Sichuan to Xinjiang.
Posted by: Borani at May 30, 2008 03:21 AM
To be honest, I only skimped first several lines of this post. From my past sparse experience with the posts and following messages here, it would be safe to say this is just another “Road Rage” board.
China has human right issues, corruption issues, whatever issues, you name it, we probably have it. Now that we got it out of the way, if I want to read a human right report, wouldn’t I rather read it from Amnesty?
I believe when one cannot do what one is preaching, it does not mean what one’s preaching is wrong. But I have a question of mine own. I would like to hear some American’s comment.
Did America change? China is changing despite what Jack Cafferty thought. Can US stay the same? Can US still hold the same kind of view of China, while China is changing on daily basis?
Is America still on top of the pyramid? When people at the bottom of the pyramid gain access to better material life, can the world afford the America life style with 6.6 billion people?
Is “International Police” really a compliment?
Posted by: Tong at May 30, 2008 04:24 AM
whoops: re Dyn's reply to Dyn was infact Jimba.
@ Tiako, well put.
Posted by: Jimba at May 30, 2008 04:30 AM
@ Real lust
this is an Anglophone blog. Yu are really smart and perceptive arent yu? and a hell of an analyst. Come on yu are an anti Tibetan splittist.
Dyn writes the greatest absurdities constantly in the worst bastardized incomprehensible Chinglish imaginable. He should be able tyo express his inanities clearly. So stop twisting things. Many would agree. And why dont yu get on some Chinese blog smart arse?
Posted by: James at May 30, 2008 05:29 AM
@ Borani
Hasnt Xinjiang long been a dumping ground for what China cannot deal with????
@ Tiako
Wasnt Deng Xiao Ping a Hakka (Kejia ren)?
U.S . Policy has been extremely racist in the past; as have all settler societies' to the new worlds.
Have yu seen that Simpon's episode when they visit Tinanmen Square?
They come upon a plaque which reads:
"NOTHING HAPPENED HERE"
Posted by: James at May 30, 2008 05:37 AM
@Realust
seeing yu are so devilishly clever at deciphering the worst of 'road rage' Chinglish could yu possibly put the following from the eponymous mr/miss Thankyou into unbderstanable English for us. I cant make a word of it out:
"Thank you sooo much,
Finally somebody, told this nazi freak sth that almost every Uigur and Tibetant you..you friggin US nationalist moron, 'proud uigur and tibetant my a**' we don't want that...foreigners like you..i.."
Watch out realust he might get the governemt on you coz if ya speak english or expres ya opinion yure in trouble.
DonT ya just luv these self appointed net police. Self appointed?????? hmmm...
but Michael IS right as soon as the heat is off and the shock is over re: the earthquake criticism of the CCP (not China) begins again and as soon as anyone says anything the fascists at home and across the great diaspora dont want to hear they manifest in the form of Dyn, thankyou and relalust. Its fun...but a detriment. Thanks for posting the great thought provoking articles Michael. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
Posted by: James at May 30, 2008 05:44 AM
@Tong
I would dispute the accuracy of your statement here:
"Can US still hold the same kind of view of China, while China is changing on daily basis?"
China is obviously not changing on a daily basis. How do you back up and prove such a statement?
Many peopel even within the US are totally critical of its hypocrisy and self-delusion. Thay can voice that - that is the main difference even if yu see through the lies of governemt and dictatorship in China as many do (especially minority peopel) yu cannot voice it- can yu Tong?
and yu are trying to say China is changing on a daily basis? No it aint?? Go and try an be critical of the governemt today in front of the party Headquarters - GO ON- and well find out ya prison cell number and send packages of canned fish to yu so yu wont die of rice gruel poisoning and malnutrition.
Changing on a dilay basis. Go tell that to your own brave Han dissidents in jail with their teeth dropping out of their heads and their eyes yellowed from jaundice and lack of proper medical care. Scum of the nation dont deserve medical care. Changing on a daily basis. YEAH SURE. Change = transparency and honesty and lack of corruption. and maybe even proper building materials to make sure all the progress and deevlpoment satnds up instead of being a facade to bolster the power of the CCP and keep the masses happy.
China is Orwellian. The truth cannot be known.
thats my diatribe for the week im off for a weekend of forbidden sex and drugs and political subversion with a lil chick I know see ya on monday.
Posted by: James at May 30, 2008 05:57 AM
dont be so arrogant to assume China will rise as a power - it may fall to pieces very soon - the earthquake is also symbolic of the shaking of China soon to come and yu better be ready for that.
============================
Thank you for your good wishes，哈哈，Would like to wish you a bright can come true VERY SOON.
Posted by: dyn at May 30, 2008 07:48 AM
@James
http://comment2.news.sohu.com/viewcomments.action?id=257172232
Here is a link to comments of a news about ET terrorists & splittists.
If you can read Han Language, you will know how ordinary Han Chinese hate them.
sohu is one of the biggest website in China.
EVERY one say "KILL them", every one.
Posted by: dyn at May 30, 2008 10:36 AM
As some one who has lived through the bloody years of the dismantling of colonisation, racial segregation, and apatheid, I cannot stop making comment comparing the minority in the US then and those now hidding in the US.
The black in the US, same like the rest of the people in the third world have to fight for justice and equality, usually ended with bullet in the head, with no fanfare. Some women in third world have to overcome their sadness to sacrisfice their children to continue fighting the colonial master in the jungle. Just to tell young chico here how obnoxious those colonialists were, France whose country overan by Nazi in the second World War, having saved by other, immediately send a rag tag army to re-invade vietnam; the British send war ships sailing up Yangtze Kiang, probably wanted to continue collecting repartration signed at the end of boxers rebellion. Dutch, English, send their army at the end of war in 1945 to Malaya and Indonesian to continue their bullying of the locals. Those were the days where young and brave stand up to the self proclaimed masters of the world, with little or no help from other.
All these stand in big contrast to the so called free tibet, free Uighur movement who have their headquarters in the comfortable west, sponsored by non other then the previous colonisers. These disgusting traitors of the thrid world, never need to work a day, as long as they help their masters break up too indepedent countries around the world. Apparently these people are numbed by easy life, have no real sense of justice and equality, a far cry from the youth of yesteryears.
Posted by: Frank Lau at May 30, 2008 07:21 PM
Frank, "black" people are called African American. Just like African American people restrain from calling Chinese "yellow".
You speak nonsense to be perfectly frank. The past you dribble on about is no more. Today, China, America, Europe is governed by an international system and its accompanying rules and norms. The only difference between vietnam/malaysia and xinjiang/tibet is that the western countries eventually left, whereas China decided to stay.
But speaking of Vietnam, who did they fight after the American's left??? Some country to the north???
Posted by: Jimba at May 30, 2008 11:09 PM
"Wasnt Deng Xiao Ping a Hakka (Kejia ren)?"
Hakka are a subgroup of Han Chinese.
"can the world afford the America life style with 6.6 billion people?"
Hell no. I can tell you, as an American, that the American lifestyle is simply not sustainable...yet. Humans are incredibly inventive, and I have faith that people will be able to make the right energy "cocktail", if you will, to make energy much cheaper.
But, the US is not criticizing China for being poor. The US is criticizing China for being a brutal, backwards authoritarian tyranny.
Posted by: Tiako at May 30, 2008 11:28 PM
I don't understand all the laowais posting here who live in China but seem to hate everything about it. But then there are plenty of Chinese here (in the Los Angeles area) who hate the U.S.
I guess some people just don't like to be happy. Or maybe being constantly angry is what makes them happy?
Posted by: Jake Holman at May 31, 2008 12:25 AM
Jimba, sure to you kind of people the world has changed, so you can legitimately help the new self appointed master of the world carrying out endlsess intimidation, first through the press, then when the ignorant majority like you are bought over, send in their cluster bombers. No, to us who has seen the impicable face of the past masters, the struggle must carry on for thousand and thousand of years, but first look carefully who you want to fight with. People with sense of direction will not fight their own country just because they have grievance with individuals, be they immigration official, local police, or even taximen. They don't throw away their hard earn independent to welcom the new coloniser.
Nations like individual have difference, they argue and sometime they fight, but they must sit down as equal to find way out to progress again, after they have learn their lesson and cooled down. Your master can be accepted too if it behave the same way.
Posted by: Frank Lau at May 31, 2008 04:14 AM
Frank, I can relate your sentiment, but only to a degree. History, however painful it is, should be used to learn lessons from, not to justify actions. The lesson should not just be that never leave us vulnerable again, but more importantly, we ourselves should never commit the same wrong. So maybe it is time to forgive, never forget and hope whatever wrong committed by us will be forgiven one day.
dyn, I know you want the best of our nation, maybe this article written by a Chinese, will interest you: http://www.huxingdou.com.cn/olympics.htm
James, how do I know China is changing on daily basis? By going back my home city after being away one year and could not find my way home? By standing on my street corner, and looking at my surroundings? No, I would not protest in the front of “Ren Min Da Hui Tang”, I am too much of a coward. But it would be foolish for the West to not knowledge the changes in China. I don’t know what the next superpower is and I hope there won’t be one. But I do know there hasn’t been a civilization standing on its peek forever, when they fell, they usually didn’t fall gracefully. Hence came my questions to Americans.
Tiako, do you really believe when the energy is at its shortage, US will just come up next substitute, instead of doing whatever it might to protect its people’s interest even though it might be unfair or even harmful to the rest of the world? When democracy is firmly in place, its heaven for its people, but what about the rest of the world?
Jimba, after Han leaves Tibet, then what? Is Dalai not smart enough to suggest the middle way?
Jake Holman, that is why I call this my “Road Rage” board.
Posted by: Tong at May 31, 2008 04:30 AM
Frank said: "No, to us who has seen the impicable face of the past masters.."
Um, Yuan Kai-shi, Chiang Kai Shek or Mao Zedong? Which one are you referring to exactly?
Tong: You've blasted in mid-sentence and have missed the conversation. No one is demanding China leaves Tibet, but old Frank here is bringing up the past, while forgetting his own.
But to answer your question, I believe Tibet will get its independence soon.When the CCP finally goes the China we known will be broken up like Russia was. Then, the Tibetan's can go whichever middle way they want.
Posted by: Jimba at May 31, 2008 07:48 AM
Soon = next hundred years.
Posted by: Jimba at May 31, 2008 07:50 AM
jimba, you didn't answer my question. I am asking what will happen to Tibet if Han leaves, financially and politically. I sincerely hope people here blasting China with minority issues have the best interest of the minorities in mind.
BTW: it is Yuan Shi Kai, not Yuan Kai-shi, if you are referring whom I think you are referring.
Posted by: Tong at May 31, 2008 09:00 AM
I don't know if US is qualified (eligible) to accuse someothers human right issues.
But for Uyghurs, it is not useless resolutions.
We should let China know that the world is watching them.
Tohti Tunyaz should be saved as well...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tohti_Tunyaz
Posted by: li at May 31, 2008 11:38 AM
Michael,
US military is in planning of an operation around Karakuram area that would disrupt Sino-Pakistan buddy-buddy actions. This resolution is a calling for Uighur cannon fodders to act upon.
Of course, this operation will target Bin Laden as the whole war in Iraq claimed. Anyway, really scary part is that US high ranking official said to press today that they have "evidence" that Iran is linking with Al Qaeda now.
Posted by: sha at May 31, 2008 11:57 AM
Jimba, you are smart to bring out past chinese leaders to softened the real crime of white supremacist past, and present. Yuan shi kai gone down with bad name, same with Chiang, both of them did not contribute to the stability of their own country. It is not true with Mao, through his leadership you have a new china that worried a lot of nasty people who increasingly complained of china's wealth day by day. He made mistake, but who doesn't. US president Wilson sold Shantung penisula to Japan in the 20's, emboldering Japan to finally attack pearl habour. With hind side, Truman is wrong to nuke Japan too. Both mistakes killed millions of people. If there is karma, you should worry that one day Japanese will get that from you. Back to the topic, when I say the ugly face of colonialist I mean disgusting white men herding Australian aborigines like cattle performing so called cultural show in front of foreigners, in a foreign land. I saw it with my own eye and made a vow never want to see such thing happening again. Yes this scene is not happening in Australia anymore except it is now transformed into more subtle way of domination. Like your dream of china splitting into multiple small nations, while supporting European forming EU and Amerian forming Nafta to get benefit of regionalisation. Any upright person today should takle the killing in Palestine, Afghanistan,and Iraq. These small nation suffer just because they wanted to protect their soverignty from puppet masters who wanted to continue living a digusting luxurious lifestyle, creating many more filth and pollution than all other people combined. I say save the people in the Middle-East before saving rich and well fed dissidents that work for the puppet master.
Posted by: Frank Lau at May 31, 2008 04:14 PM
@ Tong: hard to say. But if I can make a comparison to East Timor who got independence in 1999 I would say it depends on how violent China's departure was. In East Timor's case, Indonesia destroyed all the infastructure and or systematically moved or killed those civil servants who knew how to run the country. Thus, financial prospects would depend on these circumstances. Tourism is self-sustaining... a lot of Han business would leave, but then maybe a lot would stay? Politically; as per East Timor. The high's and low's of new political systems, albeit, democratic.
But, a caveat: this is all heresay, and I have never advocated Tibetan independence.
Thanks for correcting my last. Fingers sometimes do their own thing.
Posted by: Jimba at May 31, 2008 04:31 PM
@ Frank, Mao may have lead the communists onto victory in China but he is also responsible for millions and millions of Chinese people's deaths: Think the ruinous consequences of the Great Leap Forward, Cultural revoltion etc. What I find ironic is that China so OFTEN brings up the past when it comes to Japan killing of innocent CHinese, but when it comes to your own leader you remain silent??? What's up with that Frank? He didn't just make a mistake, he killed millions of your countryman?
I agree, colinization was disgusting. And I also agree that China is the new face of this old "disgusting" practice.
Posted by: Jimba at May 31, 2008 04:38 PM
@Dyn,
re:
"@James
http://comment2.news.sohu.com/viewcomments.action?id=257172232
Here is a link to comments of a news about ET terrorists & splittists.
If you can read Han Language, you will know how ordinary Han Chinese hate them.
sohu is one of the biggest website in China.
EVERY one say "KILL them", every one."
thanks for the link. cant wait to read some more murderous Han fascist thought. Ill get my Chines egirlfriend to translate it in its entirety for me. we work well together translating. Her English is perfect. She used to think like you.
Posted by: james at June 1, 2008 10:53 AM
@ Frank lau
re:
"All these stand in big contrast to the so called free tibet, free Uighur movement who have their headquarters in the comfortable west, sponsored by non other then the previous colonisers. These disgusting traitors of the thrid world, never need to work a day, as long as they help their masters break up too indepedent countries around the world. Apparently these people are numbed by easy life, have no real sense of justice and equality, a far cry from the youth of yesteryears."
Frank all of the Uyghur leaders who stayed in Xinjiang have been murdered by the CCP or imprisoned and had the key thrown away. Are yu also a realist? Are yu in the Third World? I doubt it. The Uyghur Diaspora are deeply in touch and empathy with their suffering comrades; they cannot operate from within China; and No body can blame any Uyghr for leavinbg Xinjiang. On that note why do so many Han bend over backwards to leave wonderful China? Its so good, so great but they dont want to live there.
@ Frank
re:
"Yuan shi kai gone down with bad name, same with Chiang, both of them did not contribute to the stability of their own country. It is not true with Mao, through his leadership you have a new china that worried a lot of nasty people who increasingly complained of china's wealth day by day. He made mistake, but who doesn't. "
FRANK, Mao is responsible for the deaths of at least conservatively 70, 000, 000, yes million Chinese. Made some mistakes? This blood has never been accounted for. But there wil be a reckoning. There always is. The blood of the innocent cries out from the earth for justice. Thats why Mao's 'new' China will crack: it is built upon deception, mass murder, death and lies and torture and mind control. Thats the truth of the matter.
Posted by: James at June 1, 2008 11:06 AM
@ Frank again
BTW here is a litlte story about a Uyghur leader who returned to Xinjiang from the easy West. Could you ask any of your Communist official friends to help him?
A prisoner's plea - Freeing Huseyin Celil
By Burlington Post Editorial
Editorial
May 30, 2008
This month's appearance of a letter purportedly written by Burlington resident Huseyin Celil from a Chinese prison is disturbing.
When taken at face value, the letter is a desperate cry for help from a man sentenced to life for what he, his family and Amnesty International officials maintain was nothing more than human rights work.
In the 1990s Celil represented the interests of his native Uyghur people -- nearly 10 million of whom inhabit Eastern Turkestan, also known as Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR).
In the text of his recent letter -- written in Uyghur and translated to English -- he asks why no one from Canada has come to visit him and hear his side of the story.
"So far nearly two years I have not seen any one from Canada," the father of six wrote in a letter dated March 10 of this year.
Ironically, the letter coincides with a failed prison visit by some of Celil's family that same month -- a visit that saw Chinese officials claim that Celil was no longer at the prison while instructing his relatives to return in three months.
Surely, Celil's faith in the country he has called home since 2001 -- having escaped China in the '90s -- must be severely shaken.
Since his arrest in March 2006 while visiting family in Uzbekistan, and subsequent extradition to China in June of that year, Canadian government officials say they've been working on the Celil case. However, Ottawa's progress has been minimal while contact with Celil has been virtually non-existent for months.
Chinese officials denied Celil any Canadian government representation at trial and subsequent sentencing. Burlington Conservative MP Mike Wallace remains confident that others within the Canadian government with more political authority than he are actively pursuing the Celil case.
With the Beijing Olympic Games to open in 69 days, we believe there will never be a better time for Canada to exert political pressure for access to Huseyin Celil and no greater opportunity to pursue his negotiated release than when the world's attention will be focused on China.
To do nothing, sends Celil and his family the message that he's a man without a country.
Posted by: James at June 1, 2008 11:13 AM
@ Dyn
re::
"Here is a link to comments of a news about ET terrorists & splittists.
If you can read Han Language, you will know how ordinary Han Chinese hate them.
sohu is one of the biggest website in China."
Thank you for reminding us that China's language is "Han" not Chinese
The Han rule China dont they Dyn?
and crush the minorities and possess their lands which contain all the wealth?
that right too Dyn?
and once again lets hope yu are not an 'ordinary' Han Chinese. If so, there are millions upon millions of guys just like yu. Thats truly frightening an an omen that China is heading for a long period in the Dark Ages...again...
Posted by: James at June 1, 2008 11:40 AM
The silence was deafening.
Posted by: Jimba at June 1, 2008 12:58 PM
"I am asking what will happen to Tibet if Han leaves, financially and politically. I sincerely hope people here blasting China with minority issues have the best interest of the minorities in mind."
US will try to pay $100M per year to have a military base here to look down on China. A Korean War style conflict in Tibet. Many fought in China side and some in US side. At end, may not many Tibetans left living.
But I guess that will NEVER happen. Tibet can get independence when all 1.4B Chinese all dead.
Posted by: Sha at June 1, 2008 01:17 PM
Hey，do you have interest in sci-fiction?
Thank you America for the "Phoenix"
God bless America
Posted by: miloservic at June 1, 2008 01:55 PM
"Tibet can get independence when all 1.4B Chinese all dead."
Wait, are you admitting that the Chinese will fight to keep Tibet whether the Tibetans want independence or not?
Posted by: Tiako at June 1, 2008 08:18 PM
To uighur and tibet seperatists and dissedent staying in the US and the west. Stop your propaganda, you are just writing to please people like Nancy Pelosi whose government will decide your pay check. Yes, you will say there are 1oo million kill by Mao, it does't have any effect except brain death people in the west. We in most part of the world don't trust media and western politicians who cheated in 1945 to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki with millions of innocent death, who cheated in Tonkin bay to expand war to whole of vietnam, causing million of civilian death, in Abu Graib Iraq where no Weapon of Destruction were found but invade anyway, and see how many innocent are kill everyday. Dwelling in history is OK, but work more on something that can save today's life. Chinese including those in tibet and Xinjiang are happy living in an unprecedented era that many foreigners are worried they will be overtaken economically oneday. Lets argue about the real tragedy in middle east to save innocent life.
I dont live in America, neither in China, so I believe I am neutral.
Posted by: Frank Lau at June 1, 2008 09:29 PM
We can see many here working for their govemnets. Host and others also are suspicious for CIA operatives. American desperado.
Posted by: Does not matter at June 1, 2008 10:09 PM
＠Tiako,
You're right. When other Chinese's life on danger, they will keep Tibet no matter what Tibetans want. Not just Hans, also Mongols, Manchus, etc., have no sympathy for their independence fight.
Posted by: ｓｈａ at June 2, 2008 02:34 AM
Too many debates, too many 'ifs'. But at the end of the day, Xinkiang and Tibet will still forever remain under the big Chinese family. As for the Dalai Lama and those Tibetans in exile, they can assimilate with their Western masters if they so desire. I predict an everlasting peace thereafter.
Posted by: BeWay at June 2, 2008 03:20 AM
http://www.minkaohan.com/
This is a forum established by Uyghur Chinese, if you can read Han Language or Uyghur Language, you will find how they love their country---China and how they hate split!
Splittists are handful.
Posted by: dyn at June 2, 2008 07:52 AM
@ Frank: I believe you were the one who first brought up history, and now that your piss-weak arguement has been thrown back in your face you become all, "history is irrelavent." Pathetic.
You will find that MANY on this site are not American either, I am also nutural, the difference between you and I is that I have been taught to always question and ask questions, while you have been taught to be a good Chinese boy and NEVER question and just accept what bullshit is fed to you... no matter how absurd it is.
By the way, I doubt very strongly that you are NOT chinese. Not educated in China... highly doubtful. Your thinking is the product of the Chinese education system: Believe what is told to you, do not think for yourself.
Posted by: jimba at June 2, 2008 08:18 AM
@Frank
now we see your true intents Freank. There is no reason in a person liek yu - yu are a straight out murderous hater of the minority people under the fascist state of China's control. All it takes is for someone to disagree with yu or stand up for the oppressed minorities and creepies like yu appear. Often at first with a semblance of deabte and concern; but all is velied propaganda and government brainwashing rehashed. Ohhhhh...its painful. Read yr own words Frank:
"To uighur and tibet seperatists and dissedent staying in the US and the west. Stop your propaganda, you are just writing to please people like Nancy Pelosi whose government will decide your pay check. Yes, you will say there are 1oo million kill by Mao, it does't have any effect except brain death people in the west."
yu are a sick puppy.
your hero Mao is modern history's greatest mass murderer and you are trying to tell us everything is OK. Just afew mistakes..hahahaha. Oh yes, hao, hao, hao, hao, hao, hen hao.....
Posted by: James at June 2, 2008 08:44 AM
@Dyn
Many Minkao han (not all) are also brainwahed Uyghur whose parents are Communist etc. It is in their interet to be Minkao- it is the only way ahead in the Communist dicatatorship and because of the pressure of the mass migration of Hna into Easdtern Turkestan. But be careful Dyn; there may be a snake in your shoe or a scorpion in your underweat. Wu er kai xi was min kao Han Uyghur named Orkash.
hahahahahahahahha
. Anywat this site is pure propaganda. many of these uyghur are simply opprtunists. Cunt blame them. Life is shit for Uyghur speaking Uyghurs - they must become Han to have a cjhance in China's racist dictatorship. They love their country im sure and when your dictatorship falls they will be useful to their own govermnemt of Eastern Turkestan. hahahahahaha
Posted by: James at June 2, 2008 08:48 AM
sorry Frank I forgot this classic line form yu who is so neutral. Yu may not be in America or China but yu is one barinwashed sob:
"Lets argue about the real tragedy in middle east to save innocent life.
no lets argue about the ongoing tragedy of Communist China to save innocent lives."
When will Mao be broughtt to trial
or the butcher's of Tiananmen?????
or the buthcer's of Yining???
or the butchers
of the Tibetan massacres. 1987 onwards...??
history never forgets Frank
Posted by: James at June 2, 2008 08:54 AM
@James
Many Minkao han (not all) are also brainwahed Uyghur whose parents are Communist etc.
===================================
there are as many MinKaoMin(Uyghur who learn in Uyghur school) as MinKaoHan(Uyghur who learn in Han school).
because the Uyghur Online forum closed due to ET activities, many user of Uyghur Online are at minkaohan.com now.
You can label everyone who is opposite to you "BRAINWASHED".
Posted by: dyn at June 2, 2008 09:28 AM
@Dyn
why was the other freer Uyghur online forum closed down is the more important question?
and yu generalize by saying that many who used to contribute to that forum are now on ya minkaohan site - yu dont know; and it is not obvious - yu are twisting the truth again DYn.
I dont think everyone who is Opposed (correct word) to me is brainwashed, just 99% of Han commentators on this blog.
But yu are in a clas of your own. Yu are mindless, the work has done its job. You no longer think but only speak. Yu are the classic "talking head" without a mind. Yu are the new Chinese man. Homo sinicus.
FREER uYGHUR DISCUSSION SITE CLOSED DOWN IS THE RERAL QUESTION
Posted by: James at June 2, 2008 11:17 AM
“there may be a snake in your shoe or a scorpion in your underweat. Wu er kai xi was min kao Han Uyghur named Orkash”
James, to me Wu Er Kai Xi is worse than a scorpion. “Caption abandons the ship last” apparently didn’t apply to him. He rallied the students up and left them to die. While hundreds and thousands of men and women died, maimed, jailed, guess what happened to him? Fled at the first sign of trouble, educated in Harvard, is having a comfortable life in Taiwan and advocating “ONE CHINA”! Maybe Chinese today should learn a lesson from this: think twice before you got yourself rallied up, in the end, you are the one left behind, suffering.
Posted by: Tong at June 3, 2008 03:57 AM
“All I want is to provide you with provocative information... and let you argue it out amongst yourselves”.
Michael, I guess you succeeded. What does this post accomplish, besides bashing?
Provocation: $0, Bashing: $0, Impervious to provocation: Priceless. There are some things money can’t buy. For everything else, there is Little Mikey.
Posted by: Tong at June 3, 2008 04:08 AM
@Tong
seems yu like you do a bit of bashing yrself.
Nothing like a Uyghur beating the Chinese at their own gamne to get
the sensibilities heated eh Tong?
for your information Orkash was smuggled out of Guangdong by ship inside a cupboard. Ask any one who was in the know living in Hong Kong at the time. If hed stayed in China- he'd be dead- you can bet Li Peng would have seen to that. Why not have a goood life. outside China? 100,000s of thousands of Chinese are doing it or breaking their necks to do it all the time. The ONE CHINA Orkash advocates has noting to do with your favored dictatorship being in control - its based on democracy; and democratic principles. He si the victim of ongoing CCP hate / propaganda. Come on he publicl;y humiliated one of the worst criminals in Chinese history - Li Peng and hence the corrupt party he rpepresents full of thugs and murderers at heart. If this is a BASH, then you need redfine the word. What often accounts for bashing on this blog is people with minds that think strightforwardly answering the inanities of Han fascists who when put in their place, cry and sook all over the place as if they are the ones being wronged after being rebuked for their racist and discriminatory rot (bashing, usually minority people or American imaginaries). bash away Tong...
Posted by: James at June 3, 2008 05:44 AM
@Tong
also
I know yu are a more reasonable voice in general but when yu write to the likes of Dyn
the followiong:
"dyn, I know you want the best of our nation, maybe this article written by a Chinese, will interest you: http://www.huxingdou.com.cn/olympics.htm"
yu see something worthwhile in the poor boy's sentiment but overlook the fact he is basically a homocidal maniac who only wants blood. Yu need some discretion and discernemnt when yu go encouraging peopel liek this who constantly attack and derail sensible discussion by their bias, hatred, insecurity and delusion: are there better words for it??
As Dylan once papaphrased:
"Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings"
just becoz some one says something in defence of their country doesnt make them right, true, sound of mind or human. Nationalism when it crosses the line into fascism is a monster - history proves that so beware perhaps is good advice if yu can take it.
Posted by: James at June 3, 2008 06:28 AM
"Why not have a goood life. outside China?"
Well, according to my brainwashed education, when you rallied up these students (who were still kids), you were responsible to them. You don’t LEFT THEM TO DIE and ran for your own life. Ask that question to the parents of the perished students, Ask that question to the innocent citizens fought to stop the troop.
Anyone received the same brainwashed education as I did, knows about Tan Sitong, who said “Every reform started with bloodshed, why don’t we start with my blood at this reform?”
“If hed stayed in China- he'd be dead- you can bet Li Peng would have seen to that.”
By the way Wan Dan, who went to meet Li Peng with Wu Er Kai Xi, just got his PH.D. from Harvard. He probably went through hell. But wasn’t the above statement a little bit assumptive?
And what happened to your forbidden sex anyway. Is there really that much hate towards China, even sex cannot put you away?
Posted by: Tong at June 3, 2008 08:19 AM
@Tong: Nothing. This is just a post about an American politician giving China a severe written/spoken bashing. That's it!
Posted by: michael at June 3, 2008 09:40 AM
@ Tong
thanks for yr reply
1. Its Tuesday. I only have forbidden sex with ex communsit girls on saturdays and Sundays. To your chagrin I am back on line. You asked.
2. So you admit students were murdered by your government in Tiananmen and after. When will they be held responsible for this?
a. by the Chinese people?
b. by the internatinal community? - it was a crime against all humanity not just the Chinese. we are all human.
3. Orkash was there until the shit came down. Then he like many others had to run for his life. He was succesful. Why do you hate him for it? If yu are so brave and not a coward go and declaim the government in front of your local Gong an jiu; and as I have said to you before we'll send yu canned fish to supplement your diet. Dont come the big brave hero with me. He was not teh only student leader who escaped.
4. Orkash was the one who directly challenged Li Peng. He is a Uyghur - you know well he would have been treated differently. I know Wang Dan suffered and I have the greatest respect for him. But Orkash would be dead; and he knew it. So stop ya self-righteous mock moral heroics. He did no wrong. Are you sure your deep rooted dislike for him is not based in the fact he was a lowly minority spitting in the face of Han authority???? a subject Min kao han at that - as I said Cant trust em. "Scorpion" indeed. The man is a national hero!!!!!
and BTW If yu hate Orkash. You are in fact the one who hates China not me. May many more Orkash's rise up and defy the evil face of the CCP and its mindless fascist slaves. May the true China arise!
Posted by: James at June 3, 2008 10:30 AM
and Tong did Wang Dan say anything like this to pig head Peng?????
Wuerkaixi to Li Peng: "Just now you said we would discuss only one thing, but in fact it was noty you who invited us to be here and rather it was so many people on the Tianan men Square who asked you to come out and talk with us. So, as to how many questions we should discuss, it is for us to decide...first...we demand the government not only to affirm the movement of students from the positive side, but also to negate from the negative side the April 26 editorial, which labeled the movement as a turmoil."
Beijing Review 29 May-4 jUNE 1989, 16-17.
Seems not only that editorial nbeeds to be rectified from negative to posiotive; but also the negative prop[aganda concerning teh courage of Wuerkaixi. Tong you perpetuate a false vbiew, propaganda and CCP party line. He withstood the beast you wouldnt even dare blink at and a;ll you can do from your coward's den is hurl insults at some one and blame them for the deaths of the student swho got caught5 in your glorious armies tank fire. Im sur ethat was Wuerkaixi's fault- he rallied them , then planned to leave them to be butchered and martyred. Yeah Sure. You paint an awful picture. Despite byopur better chosen wordsd and deceptive guile and 'nice' face- you are no better than the murderous dyn. Dont forget it was Chinese students who smuggled wuerkaixi out of Guang dong you imbecile. Why? He was their hero.They wanted to save his life. Your interpretation is
1. CCP propaganda.
2. Reflective of Hna chauvanistic hate of minorities standing their ground.
Shame on you.
You should know better. Tomorrow is their anniversary you bloody traitor.
umm...is this a bash?????
Posted by: James at June 3, 2008 11:53 AM
this web site is filled with some filthy chinamen who love talking their propaganda. damn, i bet all of them have red arm bands and read mao bed time stories before sleeping in their 20 person dormitory under a bridge.
what a bunch of cry babies. Yo James, Jimba, Tiako, if any of you are in china, lets start some protests now. lets show these chinamen how ugly they really are.
down with communist, dictatorships with chinese characteristics.
Posted by: Craig at June 3, 2008 05:53 PM
“So stop ya self-righteous mock moral heroics. He did no wrong. Are you sure your deep rooted dislike for him is not based in the fact he was a lowly minority spitting in the face of Han authority???? a subject Min kao han at that - as I said Cant trust em. "Scorpion" indeed. The man is a national hero!!!!!”
This is it, right? I am a Han, so I don’t have any right to be critical to anybody from other ethic group. Did I ever say Tian An Men square never happened? Did I ever say I don’t think Li Peng’s hand is full of blood? How can you fault some Chinese to think you westerners have a biased view towards us. Whenever we try to voice our opinion, this is what we get: baseless accusation. “National Hero”? He is yours, not mine. Mine is the one left behind, tried to save his schoolmate and maimed by tank. Mine are the ones jailed and still fighting for their cause. I might not be old enough to be there, but do you know what it is like to have your dad and his colleagues went looking for their missing students? Do you know what it is like to see guards and blood? Yep, you know it all from books.
Posted by: Tong at June 3, 2008 08:36 PM
"This is just a post about an American politician giving China a severe written/spoken bashing. That's it!"
Thank you for verifying that to me again! Our brainwashed minds are just thick. My English might be atrocious, but I finally get it and am throwing the towel.
Posted by: Tong at June 3, 2008 08:50 PM
So much of superheated argument over whether Orkash was a hero or a villain... The politics of what happened, and how, was complex, and humans and their morality are imperfect, but the bottom line is that nothing justified the murder that ensued. There were many bit players involved, but the buck stops with Deng, and with the CCP, the world’s largest criminal organization.
I believe it it is a 19th anniversary today. Can all these CCP shills shut their traps for a moment, and pay some respect to their betters?
Posted by: Neddy at June 3, 2008 10:11 PM
@Craig
Yo James, Jimba, Tiako, if any of you are in china, lets start some protests now. lets show these chinamen how ugly they really are.
down with communist, dictatorships with chinese characteristics.
==========================
Come on!
I hope you to protest in China.
If our dictatorship goverment does not protect you, We will beat to death.
Posted by: dyn at June 4, 2008 07:53 AM
@Tong
thanks re:
"This is it, right? I am a Han, so I don’t have any right to be critical to anybody from other ethic group. Did I ever say Tian An Men square never happened? Did I ever say I don’t think Li Peng’s hand is full of blood? How can you fault some Chinese to think you westerners have a biased view towards us. Whenever we try to voice our opinion, this is what we get: baseless accusation. “National Hero”? He is yours, not mine. Mine is the one left behind, tried to save his schoolmate and maimed by tank. Mine are the ones jailed and still fighting for their cause. I might not be old enough to be there, but do you know what it is like to have your dad and his colleagues went looking for their missing students? Do you know what it is like to see guards and blood? Yep, you know it all from books."
Does this mean yu are going to stop crying now and stop posting all ya sinocentric delusional crap here? Halleleujah!
Again the issue is Orkash escaped. He is a Uyghur who defied that bastard Li Peng. Yu seem to think he only has validity if he died on the streets. He escaped, again, like many other leaders and movers. Why is he the evil coward???? Why do yu vent yr anger to him alone? Its obvious...need i utter the obvious????
Your reasoning makes no sense and at heart yu are no different to the murderous Han. Listen to yu crying like and whingeing child in your last post. Poor little Han everybody pick on them, the whole world. Oh us we are so persecuted; but really the da da da big power. wait and see - we kill everybody hahahahaahah. My god...bye bye little Tong tong.
When the new history of China is finally written when your dictatorship burns before your crying eyes Orkash will be a hero.
\
one last thing my dear imbecile
re::
"I might not be old enough to be there, but do you know what it is like to have your dad and his colleagues went looking for their missing students? Do you know what it is like to see guards and blood? Yep, you know it all from books."
i happened to be in Yining in 1997 and saw everything yu mention. They were murdered Uyghur at the hands of your elite paratroopers. Big brave Han soldiers. Oh so big and brave with tehir big modern guns. Thats right unarmed mother and children looking for their children and brothers and sisters murdered by your glorious governemnt your glorious nation, the day befroe. Frozen to death in a CCP compoiund. What type of ani,mal beast could do this to teenagers???? UH???? Dead in the streets. frost bitten limbs blackened and snapped off. Then their relatives murdered. Oh what a changing country. Oh waht a paradise of truth. Tong, Dont shit me with ya emotional crap yu manipulative gutless prick. FUCK OFF BACK TO THE CHAT ROOM AND GOOD RIDDANCE.
long live Orkash .
Long Live the Uyghur nation
down with the CCP murderers on
June 4 Commemoration Day.
Posted by: James at June 4, 2008 08:14 AM
@ Craig, nice piss-take.
@ Dyn: Beat to death? Geez, I see freedom for everyone just around the corner. You and a big red club and the promise of release of death... for all those running dogs who dare question your sensitive and insecure government in anyway. Do you realise how absurd you sound?
Posted by: jimba at June 4, 2008 09:39 AM
Beat to death?
=================
I omitted a word. That should be "If our dictatorship goverment does not protect you, We will beat you to death."
朋友来了有好酒，若是那豺狼来了，迎接它的是猎枪。
if friends come to my house, we use good alcohol to serve them; if wolf come to my house, we will use gun to serve them.
it is my FREEDOM.
Posted by: dyn at June 5, 2008 07:28 AM
Sounds to me Dyn that this thinking makes you the wolf.
Posted by: Jimba at June 6, 2008 06:34 AM
Some sites on the Feb. 1997 Guldja massacre by PLA troops and paramilitary (PAP).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RUCOrg2Pb0
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/ASA17/002/2007
http://www.guljavigil.org/
http://www.rafto.no/DesktopModules/ViewAnnouncement.aspx?ItemID=260&Mid=42
Posted by: tarihchee at June 6, 2008 08:28 AM
八国联军的儿孙们不如父辈呀。
Now, what the children and grandchildren of Eight-Power Allied Forces can do is just abeting.
Posted by: dyn at June 6, 2008 08:47 AM
WOW!!!! World police or World supreme Court?
So i think American Congress will be extremely busy.
Because every thing or every dispute around world will attract the Sentator's attention, and then promote it to the American Congress.
Seriously, why dont they mind of their own business?
Or, the earth is just too small to the Senator Brown.
Posted by: Sisi at June 6, 2008 10:43 AM
@ Susi
re:
"Seriously, why dont they mind of their own business?
Or, the earth is just too small to the Senator Brown."
If China truly wants acceptance into the family of nations the it must come under international scrutiny. Especially in its treatment of minorities. Yu wanted the Olympics. Then yu must expect this: otherwise retreat back into the backwardness and isolation of the past. China must Change. Or perish!!!!!
Posted by: James at June 6, 2008 01:30 PM
@ Sisis
again
what Senator Brown is speaking of here is China's dictatorial, genocidal and racist suppression of the Uyghur people. Somebody must speak for them becaise no Han Chinese has the courage or compassion or sense of justice to do so it seems. If such persons exist they are in fear of the government. The fact is the earth is no longer small. China can no longer rape the people and land of Turkestan or Tibet- things have changed. the Olympics wil be the watershed of change for China. But not what they expected. Bring it on. Bring doewn teh evil dictatorship. Set China free.!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: James at June 6, 2008 01:36 PM
Uighur seperatist are no common people, same with tibetan seperatist. They are racist who hate other just because they are not their kind, period. Don't give me the crap of this land belong me and that land belong to you type of logic. This world don't belong to lazy bump, only people who toll the land reap the harvest from the nature. To delineate land base on race is crazy. Nazi did that and gave the rest of the peaceful people a world war.
Posted by: khan at June 6, 2008 09:56 PM
@Khan,
According to your logic, whoever strong enough is free to take other's land, exterminate their culture and world should keep the blind eye. Nazis and Japanese Empire did exactly that before the WWII, exterminating Jews, Chinese and others and invading other's lands, while the world kept silence. Finally the world rose up against these evil forces and won the WWII. Haven't we learned our lessons, Khan? Its amazing the someone who is the advocate of a Nazi-like policies of China is accusing others being racist and Nazi. We Uyghurs have a saying that goes "Öy igisidin oghri küchlük", which can be roughly translated as "The rubber/intruder accuses the home owner as intruder", which is exactly what you're saying.
Posted by: Heverci at June 7, 2008 02:11 AM
@Hewerchi
Thanks for the great proverb.
The guests were welcomed according to Uyghur hospitality and then refused to leave gorging themselves first on the food of the house, then the trees of the orchard, the vegetable garden and the livestock, when the residents copmplained they murdered them or accused them of ingratitude toward the great benefit bestowed upon them by having such a guest in their home and imprisoned them. There are many Uyghgur songs with such an "oghri" theme. Could you give us some translations?
Posted by: James at June 7, 2008 02:06 PM
Everyone should fight for equal right, not exclusive right. Seperatist are fighting for exclusive right, period. No time for hanky panky talk.
Posted by: Khan at June 8, 2008 12:19 PM
khan yu are so full of shit. Yure logic is inverted and i dare say yu are also a perverse creature. hanky panky my arse. What are yu?
Stop twisting things, take yr hand off ya penis, and give us yr hyome adress so we can send a few of the boys around.
Posted by: James at June 9, 2008 12:39 PM
haha James we will NEVER give up our territory. we wont appease you nazi bastards. we arent like the spineless Chamberlain.
We chinese people will never appease the West.
western demands on human rights and dismemberment of western china is almost the same as when hitler used to lie and say, i just want to save the sudaten germans, protect sudaten German human rights from the horrible czechs! free the sudaten germans! free danzig.
your rhetoric is cover for something else, just like hitler's was.
westerners dont care about poor people, they just want to divide and balkanize china.
look through the lies and dont appease these nazi westerners who divide and conquer.
you waste your time James.
fighting for the uighurs is a hopeless battle. china wont get any smaller.
terrorist sympathizer.
Posted by: Emperor Qin at June 10, 2008 01:34 PM
I am back to check if there is something to learn.
James, stop act like a child asking for address everytime you get booed down. Learn how to reason with other. When I say seperatist fight for exclusive right, what's wrong? You want more explaination? You have to wait, learn something real while waiting for my retun next.
Posted by: khan at June 10, 2008 07:19 PM
@ Khan
Reason???????????
and please use your Chinese name
Thanks xiao...? Qin>...?
Posted by: James at June 11, 2008 09:46 AM
Dear 'Terrorist sympathizer' who also signs himself as 'Emperor Qin'. I agree with yu that your government is a terrorist organization which murders innocent peopel. and fascist clowns like yourself and the ill-named "khan" are its mindless supporters who twist the truth and distort reality - that is a reflection of their mental states. Qin, I hope you are caught for being the terrorist symapthizer you confess to be in your last post and are and sent to Gunatanamao Bay where you belong. I am opposed to al;l terrorists such as yourself and hope you are punished accordingly. Thanks for revealing yourself as terrorist sympathizer now we all know what yu really are. Pig.
Posted by: James at June 12, 2008 07:24 AM
@ everyone
here is the inverted logic of 3Emperor qin and Khan:
"Everyone should fight for equal right, not exclusive right. Seperatist are fighting for exclusive right, period. No time for hanky panky talk."
let me interpret teh schizophrenic reasoning these gooses want us to accept as logic, reason and enlightenment:
exclusive rights = freedom from Han oppression and equal opportunity.
equal rights = Han oppression of minorities and exertion of prejudice and racist power upon them to make them second class citizens in their own country. No voice. No representation. Death penalty for objection.
So if we follow their perverted mind -control
freedom= death and slavery.
Uyghur s claoiming equalk rights are in fact claiming 'exclusive rights' to the detriment of robbing the Hna of their colonialist power. Intersting- it is what George Orwell wrote about in his novels '1984'a nd 'Animal Farm' a total reversal of logic , a twisting of reality and if yu argue aginst it yu are dead. Qin and Khan yu are apair of murderes - yu ha liek dyn hate the Chinese minorities and yu are in fact a n enemy of true Chian and humanity. Can yu twist those words around to make them sound good in your favour??? Hao ma?
If yu want dialogue get three things:
1. de-programmed
2. a heart
3. Your own minds
Posted by: James at June 12, 2008 07:32 AM
I am back but I have no time reading James's B/S explaining the straight forward logic.
SEPERATIS WANT EXCLUSIVE RIGHT, which no government in the world can give. I am off again, see ya next week. Sorry you can't leave here, its you duty I know.
Posted by: khan at June 13, 2008 09:15 PM
Inside China is a growing sense of uneasyness.
Why? The race for progress is not leading to the hope of happiness and peace. Why? Is progress simply the gathering of material things? The tall new buildings and more commercial goods. On one level that could be a measure of progress but the ultimate condition of humanity - (not a nationalistic or exclusive catagory) is to seek true happiness and meaning in life.
A life worth living is a life dedicated to the well being of others. On one level, it is in part reached when the individual cares for the family, on another level, when the family lives for the community and on a higher level still when the community lives for the nation. Still, for a nation to have lasting happinses it is called on to live for the sake of Other nations.
When a nation prospers, its prosperity is not simply for the sake of the nation. So much of the discussion is based on national concepts and they seem to be limiting the expression. We are all part of the human race. The spiritual path, from the great sages like Master Confucious, the Buddha and the teacher of love, Jesus all share common values. These moral values point out the unique and special value of each person, they come from a Source greater then ourselves, greater then any government. Some call the Source God or Allah, Our the Transcendent Spirit. Please when you share, when we share, let us do it as one family looking on how to make our nation and world a better place.
This respect for the Transcendent is essential as it keeps civilization from turning towards brutality. Seek and express this respect in your own way but please know that we will all answer
to it in our due time. Please live life as one who embodies that respect in your words and your deeds.
Thanks
The Voice
Posted by: john at July 10, 2008 12:13 AM