Yes one wonders why so many demonstrated throughout all the Tibetan areas of China outside the TAR when they are all so happy with the benefits of Chinese rule. Must be a very influential small clique to influence such a great area and so many people. China fails to perceive and acknowledge what a popular movement of the masses really is. Despite the expected, imprisonments and executions which will follow the genie is now out of the bottle and technology and communications will thwart China's attempts - despite painful editorials such as these - to cover up their serious cultural/ethnic and political problem in Tibet and Xinjiang. The Han chauvinists of course will be enfuriated by such words, but, lets be honest they choose not to believe that the initial demonstrations were peaceful, as they were in 87 & 89; and as the Yining riots in Xinjiang were in 97. The violence was state sponsored in each instance. They should also see the bloody images of the massacred in Aba in Sichuan if they feel the deaths of subsidized Han migrants to Lhasa is the only side of the story. On their role in the colonization of Tibet Id like to make another post later. James.

"Argh! The Chinese government just doesn't get it. Do they seriously think that Tibetans want to trade their proud cultural and religious heritage for a shiny new TV?"

Well, some Tibetans are willing to make the trade. And some Uyghurs too. One of the most tangible indicators here in Xinjiang is Uyghurs sending their kids to a Mandarin school vs. a Uyghur school... and I think numbers of the former are growing. I also think the government realizes it's just a number game - once enough people are willing enough to make the trade, then the gov will get what it wants: two more Inner Mongolias.

That'll be a while. But the Han Chinese are quite capable of being very patient when the geopolitical situation demands it.

@Porfiriy: Be that as it may, the truth on the ground is that the economic benefits brought by being a part of China have reached only a relatively small number of Tibetans and Uyghurs. If everyone was getting rich, sure... but it ain't happening that way.

As for Inner Mongolia, they were just too close to Beijing to escape for very long.

Nationalism is always a tricky, albeit, powerful thing

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/world/asia/31china.html?scp=1&sq=nationalism&st=nyt

Ugh...

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/04/01/china.tibet/index.html

"Argh! The Chinese government just doesn't get it. Do they seriously think that Tibetans want to trade their proud cultural and religious heritage for a shiny new TV?"

I wonder what make you believe that Tibetans don't care about their material life? There are many secular Tibetans struggling to get better life.

I feel that you are dispatched by the CIA to stir ethnical hatred between Han and Tibetans, as it did half a century ago.

I just came back from Cleveland and really feel that local black people need financial assistance from the government. But they didn't get anything. In mainstream media their black culture is still associated with crime and promicuity. Do you think your governement or your free media did a good job to protect their "black culture" or offer them economic benefits?

Some western countries are trying helping the slave owners to get their slaves back. Can we say it is a advancement of human beings?

Even you've stayed in China for years, you still don't understand Chinese, that means 56 ethnic. You've ever been to Tibet. Did you see the tibans lose their culture?
American products are all over the world, can you say it is a threat to others? Holywood movie can be on all over the world, I also can say "your movies may lead us lossing cultures".

Please do not use two standards to judge others. People should respect each other.

"As for Inner Mongolia, they were just too close to Beijing to escape for very long."

It seems that you want to see a bunch of powerless chinas that you can easily manipulate. However, China is not India. China doesn't have large religious fractions, and most Chinese know that they are a bounded autonomy. I am afraid you will be disappointed.

The most interesting thing about China is that Chinese are sensitive about the role played by the west on Chinese ethnical issues. Often the case is, Chinese are more happy to release their nationalistic anger to innocent white foriengers. If you don't change your tone, you are doing nothing but creating more Chinese nationlistic youth.

More deaths in Custody IN XINJIANG:

Uyghurs Protest in China's Remote Xinjiang Region

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/politics/2008/04/01/uyghur-protest/

Ranee when the Han show real respect for their minorities in PRACTICE RATHER Than WORD then yu can post such meaningless diatribe

Han chauvinism bolstered by a nationalistic/ historical lie is the bait which seduces young well meaning people like yourself. Freedom for all Chinese citizens. True Autonomy for the Autonomous Regions- then yu may speak!

"Queer" yu are obviously a Chinese nationalistic Youth- violent as well? Hey yu could always go and put the squeeze on some dissident minorities who defy your hollow historical lie that they have always belonged to China if yu the feel the neeed to be nationalistic or powerful. Poor lost soul. And who do yu work for? Are yu glad to be back in China? Yu are not there but in the west - Go home or be a chauvinist and a hypocrite. James

For those who cant open this link: know what is happening. Toirture and Murder in Chinese penal system

Radio Free Asia
April 1, 2008

ISTANBUL, April 1—Several hundred ethnic Uyghurs have staged protests in China’s remote and restive Xinjiang region following the death in custody of a prominent Uyghur businessman and philanthropist, Radio Free Asia (RFA) reports.

Witnesses report protests at two locations in Khotan prefecture—in Khotan city March 23-24 and Qaraqash county March 23, RFA’s Uyghur service reports. Several hundred protesters were taken into custody, numerous sources said, and security remains tight.

Numerous sources said the demonstrations followed the death in custody of a wealthy Uyghur jade trader and philanthropist, Mutallip Hajim, 38. Police returned his body to relatives March 3 after two months in custody, saying he had died in hospital of heart trouble. According to an authoritative source, police instructed the family to bury him immediately and inform no one of his death.

The unrest comes two weeks after ethnic Tibetans in neighboring provinces staged riots against Chinese rule, prompting a deadly crackdown and countless arrests. Both Tibetans and Uyghurs—two of China’s major religious and ethnic minorities—have chafed under Beijing’s rule for the last six decades, and Chinese authorities have faced persistent accusations of repression and abuse. But while exiled Uyghur leaders have voiced support for the Tibetan protesters, the Uyghur unrest appears unrelated.

Protesters’ demands

In both areas, the protesters were demanding that authorities scrap a bid to ban head scarves, stop using torture to suppress Uyghur demands for greater autonomy, and release all political prisoners, sources said.

In Khotan, the crowd of several hundred protesters comprised mainly women. Hotel employees said police produced lists of alleged protesters, mainly women, and told them to report to police if anyone using tried to register as a guest under any of those names, they said.

The protesters, who according to several accounts numbered around 600, began their march at the Lop bus station. An unknown number of men joined their 2-km (one- mile) march to the Big Bazaar shopping area, where they were surrounded by police who arrested around 400, the sources said. How long they were held was unclear.

The sources, who declined to be identified, reported six casualties, although no details were available. Police in Khotan city and its Chinbagh district, contacted by telephone, denied any protests had taken place.

Police say protest ‘peacefully dispersed’

In Qaraqash, a police officer on duty said protesters there “peacefully dispersed.”

“There were no injuries or deaths, and we persuaded the people gathered for the protest to leave,” the officer said. He told a reporter to phone back later for an accurate crowd count but hung up when the reporter rang back after 15 minutes.

Two additional sources in Khotan said they knew nothing of protests but had witnessed extraordinary security measures there, including an order for all local residents to remain in their homes.

One local worker told RFA’s Mandarin service that police were quick to quash what she described as riots in Khotan. “There was an immediate crackdown. Now everything is stable,” she said. “Protesters were arrested although I don’t know how many were. Now travel is back to normal.”

A local restaurant employee said: “Indeed there were some riots, but now it’s calm and the restaurant is open. Some rioters were arrested but I don’t know how many were arrested. The restaurant was closed for a few days while the riots were going on.”

But an employee at another restaurant had a different account. “The restaurant is still closed,” the employee said. “There’s no chef, and there aren’t any customers either.”

Tense area

Khotan, a rich oasis fed by a several rivers, is located on the southwestern edge of the historic Tarim Basin and about 2,000 kms (1,300 miles) from the regional capital, Urumqi.

Uyghurs, who number more than 16 million, constitute a distinct, Turkic-speaking, Muslim minority in northwestern China and Central Asia. They declared a short-lived East Turkestan Republic in what is now Xinjiang in the late 1930s and 40s but have remained under Beijing’s control since 1949.

China has waged a campaign over the last decade against what it says are violent separatists and Islamic extremists who aim to establish an independent state in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, which shares a border with Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Mongolia.

In March 2008, Chinese authorities announced that they had foiled a plot by Uyghur terrorists targeting the Beijing Olympics. In the early 1990s, Uyghurs in Xinjiang launched large-scale riots, attacking and killing Chinese officials. Chinese authorities alleged that such acts killed 162 people and injured another 440, prompting a harsh crackdown.

After the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, Beijing took the position that Uyghur groups were connected with al-Qaeda and that one group, the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), was a “major component of the terrorist network headed by Osama bin Laden.” The ETIM has denied that charge.

U.S.-based Human Rights Watch says authorities in Xinjiang maintain “a multi-tiered system of surveillance, control, and suppression of religious activity aimed at Xinjiang’s Uyghurs...At a more mundane and routine level, many Uyghurs experience harassment in their daily lives.”

“Celebrating religious holidays, studying religious texts, or showing one’s religion through personal appearance are strictly forbidden at state schools. The Chinese government has instituted controls over who can be a cleric, what version of the Koran may be used, where religious gatherings may be held, and what may be said on religious occasions.”

James:

Hey! Don't you dare spew your dirty bad mouths on matters pertaining to our internal affairs! Fuck off & butt off! Fucking white devils! Don't hide behind these poor monkeys Tibetans to do your biddings. Be a real gentleman & fight like a real man. Come on, bring on your lousy GIs & have a good face off~ see how we really enjoy slitting their lousy throats & dragging their sinful bodies on our streets like what Alqaeda would love to do! Smash US/UK/Nato/Israel/Japan/West! Boycott London 2012! Damn the Christian West!

@Mainlander: I know you're gonna kick my ass and all, but would you mind at least confining your rants to the topic at hand? You already told us how much you love slitting throats the last time you commented.

When I was in Jiuzhaigou I had an interesting conversation with a college student from the village. She told us that the gov't forced the villages to give up all livestock (sheep and yak) when the park opened. They're also not allowed to expand their villages in any way. However, the one good thing to come of the park opening was that the children could receive a better education--although they didn't like the fact that they have to send their children to other cities.

My money's still on Mainlander being from Dayton.

I find it interesting how paranoid the Chinese who post on these blogs seem to be. A great many seem to be absolutely convinced that dividing China is the number one goal for US foriegn policy. Hey, guess what, that wouldn't be in America's interests! A divided China would create instability. Instability in East Asia goes against practically every political and economic interest the US has. Especially now that the Indochinese nations are becoming US allies. I wonder, is this what the CPC says the US wants? It really isn't. A democratic China, sure, but not a divided one.

More on the topic, it is very rare for their to be great instability during periods of economic prosperity, no matter where you are and no matter how much a culture has been repressed. However, cultural repression does create more reasons for instability during an economic downturn.

@James

You really think your media is that free? Then why my comments on Youtube have been deleted, and also my friends'. Bcz the comments are suppourting our country CHINA!

We can not put comment on CNN free either. CNN need to check the comments first. If our comments are supporting our country, most of them won't be posted! BUT in CHINA, we can post comment on YAHOO, SINA, SOHU and etc easily, without checking first.

I watched a video on YOUTUBE a few days ago. I saw some americans were shouting "fuck CNN" beside the CNN building. That is soooooo interesting! Bcz Americans also know their media is liar!!!

@James

I can tell you, I and also my friens who are studying in abroad now, will go back to China to construct our country CHINA!

And before this event, some of them may consider staying in western countries. But now, we believe some western countries are so SHIT! You may feel nervious that our country is growing so fast and is threat to you! So you want to see our country divided. Then we don't have other choices. The only choice is makeing our country become more stronger!

@Ranee,
Don't bother to argue with these white trash.
@James,
You are right, in 1999, I was in the demostration against NATO's bombing of Chinese embassy in Beijing. I was among the students throwing stones and beer bottles into American embassy. I don't mind to do it again ^_^

@Ranee
If you hate the west so much, why are you studying in our universities? don't you have any decent ones in China...or were your test scores too low to get into PU or HKU?

anyway...just sayin is all

China confirms Xinjiang protests:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7325960.stm

Anyone else see the front page of the www.nytimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/world/asia/03china.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Khotan is front and center though skimpy on the facts. I'll be there tomorrow.

There are some seriously bitter Chinese people posting in this thread. I don't know why they are so bitter... at least they know the English language to a decent extent, they could get a nice wage in the pampered cities in which they live. Too bad that once you leave the pampered city you step back into pure 3rd world reality. That's the reality of 95% of people living in China...

Young Chinese in 1989 really were brave... they had nothing and were willing to risk it all. The dream of democracy truly died then. These young Chinese nowadays have everything - money, (supposed) freedom, style, sex and a brash western attitude. They aren't willing to risk all that for real freedom for themselves (or for some tibetans or uighers they don't give a crap about anyway.) All these young punks can do is shoot their mouths. They're so clueless they have no idea about how much they DON'T know about their own county's history!

Until Chinese are willing to die for freedom, they'll never get it nor will they deserve it.

Yes China is trading personal freedom in for collection strength.

Because Asians are weaker in their determination to kill, fight, assaut other races than these lion and tiger hearted whites, we need to help each other by getting together, just like the horses and sheep need to hug in groups.

If the world falls into the tyrany of white power hands, our race have no freedom to grow any more,
the whites are patronizing the small Asian coutries people only to seduce them to fight against the bigger Asian country. If we ever fall,
the whole Asia will become their pray ground once again !

Look at how these whites treat wolves and mice,

They train dogs and cats to kill their own kins,
after they wipe out these animals. They starting their hypocritical remorseful crowing after these animal population were reduced to non threatening number.

But once there is a threat of resurgence of these
animal population, they will put them down again.
They also castrated and sterrlized these dogs and cats that are helping them killing their own relatives.

@lucas

your imagination is soooo stupid!

Why I study in abroad is because I want to see another side of the world and judge it in my eyes, not like your ultranationalism. Every country has its merit and demerit. My mission is learning the merit to improve my country and aviod demerit in your countries happen in my country again. That's why China can develop that fast.

You guess I can't enter PU, then did you enter the Harvard University? I am sure you are not! Bcz from your comment, I am sure your IQ and EQ are not high enough to enter. If (0.00001%) you are from a Harvard, it's a shame of Harvard!

About the protest in Xinjiang, you'd better seek the information from UN. Those people have been considered as TERRORIST offically! You are so ignorant.

Don't stay in the well and enjoy your stupid imagination, learn something to enrich your low IQ brain.

Didnt you whites come to China, to all Asian countries to investigate our weakness, study our exploitable culture and learn, rob, steal from us
in the past and keep sending military presence and espinarge airplane here in the present?

Do we then call you all spies and ask you to fuck off? We have more evidence of your people coming to our countries doing evil things to us, keep saying evil things about us than vice versa.

Think about how many Chinese and Asian antiques and treasures and books are in your libraries and musiums.

We take your hostile attitude for granted for coming to our country, yet you whites are so sensitive to some of our folks utter a little anger in your land, what kind of aggressive and intorable people you are, now every normal person should be able to tell.

Isn't Radio Free Asia funded by American Congress?

It is funny that the word "crackdown" is so often abused by western media on China. Any government, not collaped yet like "Tibet in exile", would have sent army to stop the murderous rampage. A few years ago, a riot erupted between Hui and Han Chinese. There were 17 truck loads of Hui sent to join the fight. Hui would have sent 17 train loads of men to revenge in Tibet if the gov. is not protecting tibetans. Han chauvinism is greatly exaggerated by West and Hans are third class citizens, below every other minority. It is time for them to demand equal rights, not be so wimpy. Appeasement is not working and it is time to "crackdown".

@Lucas:
We study in abroad simply because American students are too stupid to get Ph.D. in their own universities. We are getting these academic and technical jobs that you are not qualified to take. The reality in my department is, as far as there is a Chinese applicant, he/she will be the one to be admitted. Americans cannot evne score perfect on GRE math. I know Americans are afraid of losing their jobs. But it is global capitalism invites us to step on your land and take your jobs away. And global capitalism was chosen by the Reagan-Bush government, a government democratically selected by Americans^_^
No matter where we live in this world we belong to a diasporic China, it is more powerful than the economic "Greater China." No matter you like it or not, that is the fact you have to face. But you still have the right to choose to be our friends or our enemy.

@cc
"These young Chinese nowadays have everything - money, (supposed) freedom, style, sex and a brash western attitude. They aren't willing to risk all that for real freedom for themselves."

You are right, now we have everything. But one thing hasn't been changed is the nationalist spirit. Feel free to stigmatize Chinese nationalism. The post-Tiananmen generation has a different understanding of freedom, we can easily draw the boundaries between individual freedom and neoliberal individualism. The later jeopardizes the interest of the nation. In addition, we have the ability to separate the nation from the state. We can hate the state but love the nation at the same time.

Compared to the Tiananmen generation, we are more skillful and politically sophisticated. And, we are willing to give up the political "freedom" to undermine Western sovereignty, since we all know democracy is a joke.

@Ranee & Queer: I'm playing devil's advocate, you do realize this don't you? Christ, you people need a sense of humor and relax with the ultranationalism. And don't say we are too dumb to get a PhD when you can't string a sentence in correct English. I studied abroad at PU and have lived in Shenzhen, so save it.

@Ranee
"About the protest in Xinjiang, you'd better seek the information from UN. Those people have been considered as TERRORIST offically! You are so ignorant."

Such words above from you, now I'm 100% sure that you don't even have IQ of 50!,,,,Oppss,,,,,,I overestimate your IQ. Idiots have such an IQ of around 50, and as for you, I think you could only have IQ of 25.

Opss again,,,ppl whose IQ are even below than idiots may be able to claim that protesters, most of them were women, were already announced by UN as TERRORISTS even before the protest took place.

Han - Er, what? I really have no idea what you are talking about.

Mainlander - Nobody denies that the West was bad to China. However, the West was not half so bad to China as China was to China.

@lucas,
I am very humerous, But I can't see the value to amuse you. Please don't mention your studies at PKU. You should have a better idea about how much you paid for that.
Thank you for pointing out my grammar mistakes. However, it doesn't stop me passing the candidate exam and getting my Ph.D. Are you one of these white losers that have nothing to sell but your English?

@Tiako

"Mainlander - Nobody denies that the West was bad to China. However, the West was not half so bad to China as China was to China."

Are you trying to give 1.3 billion Chinese a voice? I appreciate your endeavor. But it is still your voice. I would appreciate you more if you stop giving Chinese a voice. We know how to talk.

@ S*kt*r
Why don't you just type your name as "s*h*i*t"? It looks better for you.

Is this word "TERRORIST" invented by the US? China only uses this world to stop bloodshed from happening. US uses this word to announce its killing. At least, it is the UN made the announcement for China. The US doesn't need UN's annoucement to start its killing.

I won't blame you if your IQ is not high enough to comprehend the differences.

Cheers!

Dear RANEE, WUEER, MAINLANDER et al, and other Chinese agents in the West. Yu guys are a joke: demented, ignorant, brainwashed, xenophobic, fascist lil Han cock suckers. Go home to the Great Motherland or shut up- nobody of any enlightened state of mind takes yu seriously- yu are just enforcing the stereotype of backward Han communist/nationlist thinking. Oh and how horrid that is - not to mention as Lucas points out what fucken hypocrites yu all are studying in the west: get back to your shit holes in the villages where yu crawled out of and see how great life is umm... would the embassy agencies allow that?...bye bye

Queer - Eh? I'm stating the undeniable fact that the Warlord Era, Civil Wars, Great Leap Forward etc, etc, were all undeniably worse than anything the West ever did.

separatist movements in western china are, to quote an american diplomat, "like a tooth ache, they occur from time to time, and you just have to live with it." Tibet and Xinjinag's geo-strategic importance in the world is near the bottom, no one who is important cares about their cause, other than a bunch of liberal tree hugging youths, who saw seven years in tibet too many times. most chinese dont consider western separatists the main threat to the stability of china. Tibet and Xinjiang will never be separated from china, because no major power is willing to pay the price for it. most chinese and the big players in the world are more concerned about Taiwan rather than poor backward overly religious savages who couldnt even run a country if they were allowed to. Hollywood and western media wants you to think that tibet was a buddhist paradise before 1950, look through lies, and worry about the human rights of your minorities, i.e. black and native americans in North america, Muslims in europe, aboriginals in Australia.

all this ranting, from both sides, is so trivial and low level. lets get the truth out, why do westerners care about Tibet? because its a part of china, and BECAUSE china is becoming a strong country. no on cared about tibet when the british raj committing atrocities there, no one cared about tibet during the 60s and 70s when china was poor and weak, but now, its different, so to stop/contain china's rise, and its potential, people bring up trivial things like tibet, uighurs, human rights, pollution, the list goes on and on. westerners fear the day when the world is more equal, so these "angry white guys" i like to call them, will hide behind things like tibet, human rights, to seem like their cause is just, when in fact, they are just showing aniexty of losing the place their grandparents got for them by pillaging and raping the world. angry commenters like James, are like the kid who is crying because the parties over. they know westerners grip on the world is waning. they cant accept history's natural progression

Taiko. Brilliant Point.

NICHOLAS is your real name RANEE or MAINLANDER or QUEER by any chance. God yu are twisted and full of horrid condescension? James

AND CONRAD IS RIGHT "WE" AND THERE ARE MANY (WHO MAY ALSO SURVIVE THE FASCIST PURGES WHEN CHINA TAKES OVER THE WORLD)of us who do not accept history's natural progression as you awakwardly and misguidingly term it: "we" know it has been genocidal and resist it in its present forms - yu say its ok for it is "natural"- yu are therefore a beast. for the murder and destruction of any people is not natural or accepatble if "we" can stop it and "we" are many. China will stab itself in the foot in Central Asia as it did in the Han and Tang and would of in the Qing but for Britain's financial loan to Zou Zang Tang so as his troops (not he) could destroy Yakob Beg's Emirate in what was later to be known as Xinjiang or the NEW Dominion. Go to your history books Conrad or dont speak about history fuck knuckle. james. James

@James

You are the perfect white shits that I love to spar during my university & subsequent working days in the West. To be frank to you, most West-haters, like our Arab martyls who bombed the Twin Towers thus doing a lot of other West-haters a great favour, began our lives in the West as untra West worshippers/admirers. We kind of love the easy way of life~frequenting the pub, screwing white bitches & doing all kinds of things that you white shits do & take for granted. It is only later that we started to appreciate/understand the West's evil intentions, all sorts of miseries that you sowed around the world that we started to radicalise our views. Yeah! We may like your university but this does not mean we subcribe to your Darwinian theory "survival of the fittest". It is such arrogance of you shits to insinuate that there is perhaps only one model of your liberal democracy that purportedly, & hard sold through every ways & means, you think you can impose on everybody else. I say it categorically:fuck your human rights, democracy...blah blah blah...off. The world certainly deserves more diversities & there must have been other social-political systems which best suit other cultures/groups. So, don't be so cocky & think your is always the perfect one for everyone in this planet!

Smash the West: US/UK/France/Germany/Israel/Australia/Canada. Boycott London 2012!

@ James (card carrying member of KKK, whose racist hatred toward Chinese culture is scary)

sad, your wiki level education cant cut it, even though you can cut and paste bits of history from other websites into your comments. China has never committed genocide during its rise, and if you call what has happened in tibet genocide, then you are lowering the threshold of what monsters like your grandfather hitler did. history's natural progression is not genocide, thats why we go to war to stop genocide. nice try to high jack my comment. the natural progression of history is that powers rise and fall, when europeans were still chasing their food and picking it up off the ground, the middle east and china had cities of 10 000, then the west rose and turned the tables on the east. empires rise and fall, and seems like you are mad and sad, that your empire is slowly collapsing from within because the new generation is being replaced with low quality people like yourself. this world needs a multi polar world, but many westerners dont want it, so they exaggerate things that happen in a country that pale in comparison to their own crimes, to de-legitimize another country's rise. sure china isnt a perfect country, there is some heavy handedness, that it pales in comparison to what westerners have done to the rest of the world. James's complaints are like a murdering, raping, thief trying to lecture a father who beat his child too hard one night. the only reason you care about separatist tibetans is because its a flash-point to destabilize china, "my enemy's enemy is my friend" as the saying goes. your "yellow pearl" racist arguments are too obvious.

so Conrad whats your Chinese name? Your perception of Genocide is also flawed . Why? Because Holocasust is its extreme form. It starts way before Uncle Hitler and his fascist pals ( hear that word Conrad: fascist - yu dont like it do yu?) ever decided on the 'Final solution" Perhaps yu should read the UN CHARTER ON GENOCIDE AND THEN TRY AND TELL AN INFORMED PUBLIC THAT CHINA IS NOT COMMITTING (cultural) GENOCIDE IN TIBET AND xINJIANG; AND BY THE WAY WHY ARENT YU THERE HELPING THE HAN ENDEAVOURR IF YU ARE SUCH A PATRIOT? HMMM...NO NEED TO ANSWER...

As far as ZouZangTang tang goes he DID borrow money from Britain to finance his conquest of Eastern Turkestan and it was under his "Hunan " rule of the area it became known as Xinjiang. The Qing court back home in the east didnt give a shiot about teh WEST TEHY WERE TOO CONCERNED ABOUT losi9ng teh coast. Zou was a Han nationalist ecven tho the nation didnt exist then. Any historian worth his salt knows this stuff- and by the way- westerners likE me arent against China we speak out aginst the CCP its fascist regime and its lies - wheres the autonomy promised by Mao???hahahahahahah? Chin ais fine evejn tho it is an imaginary consrtuction- whhy did Japan industrialize and modernize so rapidly in comparison to China? One reason is tahy had unity and acoherent sense of the natiohn. China at the time had no such sense- the nation belongs to thepresent and young ultra national ists ( read: neo-Han fascists and mninority murderers) are drunk on the idea because of your inferiority complex of being small or weak or whatever- China was able to be invaded during the Opium wars because of its divisions and get this its CORRUPTION (so watch out) ask Prince Kung Conrad or queer or whoever yu are in wahtwever western country yu launch your diatribes and missives from long live freedom long live free china. Down with Han fascisst and Han chauvinists.

@ queer

Ohhhh,,,,,,,another low intelligent creature ~ ~ ~

Your pen name just reminds me you have been lack of some thing - intelligence, let alone humanity.

BTW, it is proven by that you couldn't invent any thing except copying. You've just even copied TERRORISM from others??! Ohhh,,,shit,,,,,I couldn't believe that ppl like you could get Phd, if so, it would be the shame for academic world.

@ james, Tiako, and Lucas

Could you please help me out sth?

I'm searching for a warning sign that was used in foreign concessions in China during 19th and 20th century, to keep dogs and Chinese out of the area.

It would be nice if any of you here can post a link of it ~ ~

@ James

wow you love given outdated facts to prove an irrelevant point. ok, first off, CCP's policy in tibet is not as bad as US policy in the "western states" and what it did to the native americans. What china is doing in tibet is less than what america has done to Hawaii, turn it into a military outpost to protect its borders and turn it into a tourist colony. Actually, im not chinese, and my ancestors have been a victim of chinese aggression in certain points in history. I live in china and i have been to tibet, unlike you who only rely on the film seven years in tibet, and the latest and greatest in western propaganda vis a vi CNN BBC. and japan got rich not bc of unity, it got rich bc of the korean war, and bc america allowed it to get rich by opening its market to japanese products, making japan rich in order to contain china. south korea and taiwan got the same treatment. if you call what china is doing in tibet genocide, then what america has done within its own border is genocide in the extreme form, (to borrow your words) look what it did to african americans and native Americans, and what it still does today. BUT you wont admit it, bc i know your true intentions, you only hate the CCP bc they arent the spineless western worshipping yellow people like the japanese are and KMT were. When the KMT ran most of china, everyone accepted tibet was a part of china. (watch Frank Capra's why we fight film) the reason why you hate the CCP is bc there is no more USSR. you need an enemy, you need a reason to hate, you need a reason to tell yourself, they are savage, the west is not, we are right, they are wrong. white supremists like you always need an enemy. Im not sticking up for china bc i love everything they do. i just defend china against the hypocrisy in most, not all westerners, the truth must be said. FREE TIBET? GO FREE IRAQ, THE WEST BANK AND GAZA, GO FREE HAWAII, ALASKA, PURTO RICO. you want to satellize china and use it to your benefit, you hate the CCP bc is doesnt take orders from washington. lets face it, if you really cared about tibetans and human rights, youd be on egyptian, israeli, and saudi blogs screaming HUMAN RIGHTS, cultural genocide, but you dont bc the are US lackys. i deal with MIA FARROW wannabes like you everyday in china, but i have yet to find one whose argument isnt the same.

"Be that as it may, the truth on the ground is that the economic benefits brought by being a part of China have reached only a relatively small number of Tibetans and Uyghurs. If everyone was getting rich, sure... but it ain't happening that way."

True, and I'm aware of this situation. But you only need to get a core amount of people onto the "material benefits induced indifference" bandwagon to establish an effective system of control over the local populace - at least long enough until the population ratios are so skewered as to render local discontent entirely ineffective. I acknowledge that the way benefits are distributed in Xinjiang is predatory - but its not necessarily along ethnic lines. Material benefits are bestowed upon the Han Chinese, and people who ACT like the Han Chinese, which is a terribly reductionist way (I admit) to say Uyghurs who undergo Mandarin education, work entirely in Mandarin work environments, have no qualms about working for the XPCC or for a giant oil company, and subsequently have children who are more comfortable with Mandarin and can't write in Uyghur. I've seen plenty of Uyghurs who fit this description. Granted, compared to the whole body of Uyghurs, the number of these "minkaohan" Uyghurs is small, but it's growing. One reason the Uyghurs have not been able to assemble an effective resistance to Han rule is that there is no international support for them nor is there an intellectual middle class to propagate ideas to farmers and laborers. The Chinese is allowing for the production of a Uyghur middle class - but a middle class that is entirely loyal to the CCP and know full well their economic status is contingent on continued loyalty.

That's my view on how the CCP achieves control. The "everyone isn't getting rich, benefits aren't distributed evenly" argument could actually be applied to all of China and really isn't unique to Xinjiang. True, there's a growing middle class in places from Shandong to Jiangxi, but there are still hundreds of millions of farmers who really aren't reaping benefits from the boom. And yes, there are frequent protests by farmers in Guangzhou and what not, but nothing can gain enough momentum to be truly destabilizing, because a revolutionary change usually involves an alliance between the "proletariat" and some intellectual elements in the middle class (like Mao Zedong, born into a relatively wealthy farming family). The thing about China is that because of material advances that don't *need* to be distributed evenly, the middle class, be they Shanghai fashionistas or Uyghur merchants in Xinjiang, are pretty happy with the way things are.

@S*kt*r & jmaes

You really don't know how to argue. Your comments just show your vulgarity and unwisdom. You only can attact our country and ourselves, but can not confute our opinion. Sooooooo poor！

@Lucas

PU also have trash, especially the whites.

@shit,
"I couldn't believe that ppl like you could get Phd, if so, it would be the shame for academic world."

Well, you probably have to accept this fact. I am not only getting my Ph.D. in this may, but also have accepted an academic job offer as a junior faculty member. It is a shame for the Western academic world, producing "shit" like you. I have made my mind to use the knowledge that I copied from the west to re-enlighten white trash.

@James,
"Han chauvinism bolstered by a nationalistic/ historical lie is the bait which seduces young well meaning people like yourself. Freedom for all Chinese citizens. True Autonomy for the Autonomous Regions- then yu may speak!"

Don't you worry. Unfortunately, the Chinese nationalism is usually different Han ethical chauvinism. As long as the Western media keeps barking, as long as white trash like you believes you can educate Chinese, the Chinese nationalism is towards the West. So, I have to admit that you did a good job helping Chinese people to differentiate the two. Appreciate!

comment of
http://www.blackandwhitecat.org/2008/04/01/separatism-and-tibet/#more-143

Even the US has long accepted Tibet to be part of China - even well before the 1950 liberation:

The United States considers the Tibet Autonomous Region or TAR (hereinafter referred to as “Tibet”) as part of the People’s Republic of China. This longstanding policy is consistent with the view of the entire international community, including all China’s neighbors: no country recognizes Tibet as a sovereign state. Moreover, U.S. acceptance of China’s claim of sovereignty over Tibet predates the establishment of the People’s Republic of China. In 1942, we told the Nationalist Chinese government then headquartered in Chongqing (Chungking) that we had “at no time raised (a) question” over Chinese claims to Tibet.
US State Department. http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/bureaus/eap/950907WiedemannTibet.html

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/HuangpuparkOld2.jpg

DEAR PORFIIRY AND OTHERS - THANKS FOR YR COMMENTS. I ALWAYS FIND THE COMPARISON USED BY THE HAN CHAUVINISTS THAT ITS OK FR THEM TO COMMIT GENOCIDE BECAUSE THE WEST HAS ALREADY DONE IT - SUCH AN ADMISSION OF GUILT SUCH AN INVERTED REASONING. ID LOVE TO KNOW WHICH STAFF QUEER IS TEACHING AT AS A JUNIOR FACULTY MEMBER SEEING HE LOVES THROWING PROJECTILES OF FIRE AT THE U.S. EMBASSY - LETS ROOT HIM OUT AND LYNCH HIM IN FRONT OF THE CHINESE EMABASSY AFTER WE ALL HAVE A PIECE OF HIS DELICIOUS ARSE..UMMMMYUMMMY. AFTER ALL RANEE HAS THREATENED PACIFISTS LIKE LUCAS AND MYSELF WITH DEATH WHEN THE FASCISTS TAKE OVER THE WORLD - LETS LEARN FROM THEM AND DESTROY BABAY , DESTROY SO WE CAN FILL OURSELVES UP NOW BECAUSE WE ARE SO BIG...AND POWERFUL.... I WANNA SCHTOOP QUEER FIRST THO..OK..WE ARE PATRIOTS LETS DO IT FOR THE COUNTRY IN TURN ...LETS GANGBANG QUEER before he swings on fire- better than having the spy in our education system- my God help us.

AND CONRAD...IF YU ARE NOT QUEER in disguise...i am on other blog sites screaming about abuse in Gaza and Iraq and elsewhere yu presumptious twat. The situationin China however has reached boilover - things aint ever gonna be the same for the PRC. Long live Free China for free Chinese. James

and "Queer" I do not think Chinese like yu can be educated. so yu are wrong. yu are beyond true education LIKE ALL arrogant deluded DIMWITS IN ALL CULTURES. Its great watching guys like yu crawl out of the woodwork. Cant wait for the sex lovey, James.

Han ethical Chauvinism - what a joke - oh boy.

James, the gay black jewish human rights activist.

really interesting, i am kind of releived, only three compatriates here standing against you guys. I also want to stress that their heated comments just represent the few of their own kind. we know better and we know hatred is not the way out. queer and mainlander and the other idiot are exposing the ignorace they represent. there are people in china, capable of thinking clearly and and independent of CCTV and CPC.

Wang I could Hug yu. wherever yu are. Thanks. I know. But "they" are also representative of a huge sector of Chinese thought that as I have pointed out is chauvanistic, ultra nationalist, and fascist; and largely sympathetic with any Communist Party policy that crushes others in the name of the 'nation' - weve seen these types before throughout history and know what currents they represent. In the meanwhile true Chinese patriots are being imprisoned for speaking the truth out of love for their country. Can we think of anyone recently? Thanks Wang and bless yu... James

UPI Asia ONLINE

"No such thing as 'anti-China forces'"
By WU ZUOLAI
Guest Commentary
Published: April 04, 2008

Within China, many drumbeaters are stirring up anger against so-called "anti-China forces," referring to groups that are against the Chinese people, hold historical hostility toward the race, or have a conflict of interest with China or its people. If these voices are correct and such forces do exist, they will oppose the Chinese whenever they have a chance -- whether it's the Chinese people or the Chinese nation. They will always be anti-China, just as mice are always anti-cat.

Does this perception match the reality, however?

Actually, those judged "anti-China" because of their critical or even hostile attitudes -- including foreign political figures, media and some other groups -- are not against the Chinese people but against Beijing, a synonym for China's government.

Therefore, one should more precisely define these forces as critical of Beijing, or anti-Beijing. There are people who, in their innermost nature, have an aversion to Beijing's policies and systems. They may be overtly hostile, but it is not toward the Chinese leaders or the Chinese people. It is related to problems and troubles caused by the political system, which have harmed the Chinese people and are also factors contributing to instability in the world.

In the eyes of some angry Chinese youth, the conflict between China and the world can only be attributed to conflicts of interest. Does this imply that feelings of love and hate between people are merely a matter of shared or conflicting interests?

In fact, we are living in an era where values are a central issue; the core values of a nation determine its core competitiveness, its level of development and the degree of respect it holds in the world. Interests are just temporary and utilitarian while values are eternal and universal.

In addition, international criticism of Beijing results at least partly from Beijing's deficiencies in certain areas of performance. Likewise, the United States also faces international criticism for the same reason.

I would advise that Beijing improve its ability to listen to different opinions -- to correct any errors, to be more lighthearted if there are none, and to cultivate a spirit of forgiveness as well as an ability to correct its own mistakes in the face of criticism.

Because civil society is not strong in China, and the mainstream media are all controlled by the authorities, the government is not exposed to a variety of opinions. As a result, the authorities are not used to dealing with disagreements arising within local communities.

Now they are facing a range of opinion from the international community. Some view China's troubles with indifference and some suggest ineffective solutions. This is all inevitable. What the Chinese should do is simply listen to different voices, and set right what needs to be changed. After all, other people are only speaking about you, but no one regulates your words and deeds, nor does anyone resort to force.

In brief, there is no such thing as anti-Chinese forces in international society; there is only some criticism of the systems or problems of Beijing.

--

(Wu Zuolai is a scholar at the Chinese Art Research Institute in Beijing and an active commentator on current affairs. This article is translated and edited from the Chinese by UPI Asia Online. The original may be found at www.ncn.org and wublogger.blog.sohu.com. ©Copyright Wu Zuolai.)