The story is interesting, but it is not going to happen. :)

I don't think that the "middle east problem" will be solved in 15 years. USA and Israel will still be their primary target.

I think muslims in china are like muslims here in south east asia, where large majority of them are moderate muslims.

Like I said, this is an exercise in wild speculation. It was fun to write but wouldn't be surprised if everything I predicted does NOT come to pass.

Interesting—I liked this! Though, did you name PITA with an eye toward irony?

Actually, I named it with two eyes towards two ironies: Pita being a popular form of bread in the Muslim world, and PETA being an animal right organization. Of course, it's not crafted to make anyone laugh out loud or anything.

"yes," then :-)

Whoever wrote this, Just let you know: UYghurs were used to be most civilized strong turkic nation. Just being invaded and occupied by communist china and being muslim does not mean Uyghurs are bad or extremist. The real terrorist is communist china.
If you have a heart you should sympathise for Uyghurs and Tibetans.

I am not sure if you can call Communist China "invaded" a nation. The 2nd ETR consists three regions was fall apart even before Communist move in to take over from Nationalist. The 1st one at 1933 in Kashgar was overrun by Hui Muslim force.

Since the great Uyghur Empire fall down and the immigration into Tarim Basin, there were really no much nation or state to talk about. You have Khitan rulers, then Mongol rulers, and then Qing rulers but never have a chance to really sit up a sustained nation.

But if you look into history, Tarim Basin is always full of city-states and NEVER have a unified nation-state out of it. I would glad that great Uyghurs to have their own country but since they didn't have one, it is not a good idea to try to create one out of it--that will make so much mess out of it. As you know, most Uyghur population is in Tarim region, and Altai region is more for Mongol and Kahzak, anyone feel that there is a sustainable country can be created that would be cut off from all directions?

Fascinating post and very well written. As a historian I am at a loss to predict the future, but I find your attempt to be both gutsy and well-grounded. Nice job.

Sha,
For a chinese like you, ofcourse you do not want us to be independent. and sure you always recreate history.
Remember the same for the chinese too. how much time you remained independent in all of your history?? Even less than Uyghur turks.
Do you forgot Karahanilar, Salchuks, moghul empire, saidiye kingdoms were estublishhed by Uyghur or Uyghur decendants. Is not us in these contries??
All these countries estublished after Kokturks and Uyghur empire.
Do not worry about mongols and kazaks, they are our brothers, we will find a way to deal with them. We will be independent from tyrannical , terrorist regime one day.

The new capital city of Korla? What is this shameless boosterism I see before me?

I'd just like to point out that by 2021, the agri-business and urbanization Michael talks about here will put tremendous stress on Xinjiang's water supplies. Whether the Taliban, Al Qaeda or any of those guys are around or not, Uyghur protests may resurge purely based on water rights without any external support. The traditional southern cities might really collapse, or you might see major waterworks projects bringing fresh water from the mountain ranges.

Also, by 2021, Xinjiang might have some truly decent red wines.

An Uyghur,

Too bad cannot call your first name (I have a lot of Uyghur friends), so sorry for me to address you this way.

Tarim Basin, before or after immigration of Uyghurs, never showed that it has the ability to form a sustainable independant nation-state. City-states, yes, but never a nation-state. As the crossroad of lucrative Silk Road trade, this region always is in shadow of some greater powers--whether from West, South, East or North. This is very bad for people live there, but that is how geopolitics raises its ugly head.

If you look back in Han Dynasty, Han will not use the force in this area if its national interests and securities not impacted by Huns here. Same as the case during Tang Dynasty. When State of Gaocheng which is a state of ethnic Han, but decide to ally with West Turk Empire, was attacked by Tang Army. That Tang army was consists Uyghurs, East Turks, and Hans, and was led by a great young Uyghur general. So ethnicity is not an issue but national interest and securites yet.

Also some so-called Uyghur historians try to use XiongNu and Turk Empires as a reference. I would suggest that Uyghur itself is a great people that IS NOT XiongNu or Turk. After defeat by Kirgiz, Uyghurs moved to East was "lost" into Mongols, etc., to South is today's Yighur.

I am Han Chinese, but have many relatives are among Non-Han people, so I normally have an open-mind about this kind of issue. First, I want to my Uyghur brothers to enjoy a peaceful and rich life like other Chinese in East Coast, second, I don't want to see Independance of Uyghur become a play between conflicts of two superpowers (USA and China). It wouldn't be good for Chinese or Americans, but surly would be a disaster for Uyghurs.

Sorry, forget to clearify about one issue:

Uyghurs have no problem to create their own state in history, but Tarim Basin, with Uyghurs or not, NEVER has the ability to create a state in its own. It is ALWAYS be part of some large states.

You said "Gaochang" is chinese??. What a fantacy!! It is "Idiqut" in Uyghur and Uyghur/Tocharian country. Look at the history of our ancestors:
Why we do not talk about Turks and huns?? .
Huns: Uyghurs came from Turas(Tele in chinese, part of huns) who are the greatest worriers and empire builders.
Our country's name is East Turkistan that is enough to tell who we are.
Some of our ancestors are noble Tocharians from Tarim basen. check yourself who they are.
What a perverted augument by saying independence and freedom are "disasterous" for Uyghurs!? it did not proven to be diseasterous to Kazaks, Latvians, and ukranians why to Uyghurs and Tibetans??.
Sha, do not be sniky, you may know our stuation. you and your follow chauvinist friends taking advantege of our peace loving nature. search the net, see our plight, then ask yourself why Uyghurs have to suffer this much and face the extinction by violent communist regime.
it is simple, Uyghurs have no choice, we have been decieved by so long, our way to save this great nation is reestublish our own government.

Those kings of Gaochang named Zhang Mengming, Ma Ru, or Qu Jia sounds really as Uyghur names? From 501AC-640AC, the Kings for Gaochang named Qu Jia, Qu Guang, Qu Jian, Qu Xuanxi, Qu Baomao, Qu Qiangu, Qu Boya, Qu Wentai, or Qu Zhisheng sound more like Han names to me.

Uyghurs came from Dingling that was living near Big Lake until was being ran over by Huns. Uyghurs (Tele) launched rebellions against Rouran, and Rouran sent their blacksmith Turk to crash the rebellion. That made them a subject of Turks. After Tang Dynasty destroyed both Turk Empires, Uyghur forces combined with Tang forces put Late Turk State to grave. During Tang Dynasty, Uyghurs were a great fighting force to destroy West Turk Empire as part of Tang Army. So for me, to calling Uyghurs as Turks is samething funny.

Today's Uyghur indeed has blood source from Tarim locals that you can call Tocharians, but don't forget Han Chinese also have Tocharian blood mix as far as back on Zhou Dynasty and Chin Dynasty. That is probably not a convince reason you "own" this land.

Don't get fooled by that term Turkistan. It is a ploy to use by British Empire vs. Russian Empire, and USA/Nato vs. Soviet Union. As I pointed out, there is NOT a single country out of Tarim Basin alone in history. So if you think it is possible to create one, you have to include Altai region all the way to Caspian Sea. I guess those Russians, Kazaks, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Kirigis, Turkmens are really dream about a great Uyghurstan so they can be ruled by Uyghurs. Heck, I even cannot envision Mongols and Kazaks north of Tian Shan are willing to have such a chance.

Even many of Uyghurs like people in Hotan, probably know what is good for their interests. It is nice to have a political dream, but it is also important to check on reality. What I mean disaster is not because "freedom and independance" is not a good thing, but when there is a conflict between China and USA, both Americans and Chinese will only think what good for their own country, and "forget" whoever caught between them. Refer back to both Korean War and Vietnam War for causulites of Koreans and Vietnamese.

Sha,
funny is you!!
In this world only chinese believes Uyghurs are not turks. You are the masters of fabricating falce history.
Ask turks in turkey , you will get decent answer. For your suprise Uygur is most common last name in Turkey.
Saying Idiqut is chinese in only you and some communist chinese historians, nobody else. Actually, it is because your language, you can not pronouce foreign languages! . remember you say Turk as Tujue.
Do not fool yourself by telling us turkistan is foreign plot. Turkistan have thousands years of history. Read marco polo, read what he said about Turkistan. do you think my ancestors are stupid by calling his land Land of Turk?

You claiming you have tocharian blood?! , why genetic testing do not show chinese have slightest europian origin? On the contrary, Uyghurs are mostly cocasion race with high similarities with europians.

Ask normal kazak, kirgiz, tajik, turkmen and mongols, they can tell you uyghur is close to them. You are buying their communist leaders at this point, but it will be interesting see how long you can continue.

Ya. All those Gaochang Kings have great Uyghur names. LOL.

Do you think the Liu clan who still live in today's Shaanxi who are direct offsprings of XiongNu royal family have a better case to claim be XiongNu then Uyghur? Do you wonder why Liu Yuan named his XiongNu state as "Later Han" and not "Later Uyghur"? LOL.

Do you know that Ashina family changed their name to Shi (史) and their clan still live in China today?

For your Uyghur is Turk theory, here are some historic facts for you:

--The Turk's rise to power began in 546 AC when Tumen made a pre-emptive strike against the Tele (Uyghur) tribes who were planning a revolt against their overlords the Rouran.

--Tardu Khan of West Turk attacked East Turk. Ishbara Khan asked the protection from Emperor Yangdi of Sui Dynasty. Tardu attacked Changan as warning for not interfering Turkic Civil War. But a cunny diplomacy from Sui incited a revolt of Tardu's Tele vassal tribes that includes Uyghurs and Syr-Tardush. This revolt cut Tardu's reign in 603 AC.

--At 626 AC, East Turk attacked China during its transition period from Sui to Tang Dynasty. Tele tribes called Huihe (Uyghurs) revolts and allied with Emperor Taizong of Tang. Khan was took prisoner by Tang and East Turk became part of Tang. At 657, Wst Turk was conquered by Tang troop. Since then all Turks (West and East) carried Tang flags and were part of Tang Army.

--Later Huihe (Uyghur) defeated their old ally Tardush. In the west, Turgish emerged (eventually today's people of Turkey).

--Then at 705, second Turk Empire re-emerged with Turks under Chinese rule. But after Bilge Khan's death at 734, it was crashed again by Tang troop with assist from Huihu (Uyghur).

Then there was no more Turks being heard. Then you have your great Huihu State.

Any objective readers will get their own judgement from those historic facts.

Oh, forget tell you that Chinese word for Turk (突厥) in Tang Dynasty DID pronounce as Turk. Tujue is what today's Mandarin sounds. Today's Mandarin was a pegion Chinese after Yuan Dynasty. Most of other Chinese languages, for example, Cantonese, still sustain the accient sounds. You better learn a language before degrading it. LOL.

Blog about the incident...
*N*a*n*g*p*a* *L*a* killings

www.uponsnow.com/

You still can not distinguish modern Uyghur with small ancient Uyghur tribe. Modern Uyghur is the union of tens or so turkish/Oghuz tribes.

Do not fool yourself! remember what you guys preach by brazenly claiming Uzbek and Uyghur is different people. Modern genetics showed Uyghur and Ozbek is almost identical. We speak the same language , culture, custom you name it. but chinese "scholars" claimed we are different.
this applies to Kazaks , to some extent tajiks and mongols.
do you think only chinese know who were? , why do not you read what our ancestors wrote, Persions and russians, and japanese.

I know you are an internet police or a chauvinist, you only have to preach what communist party tought you, even that involves lying. no more argument needed.

First of all, if you don't know the ancient Chinese did pronounce the word Turk as Turk, that is OK. You don't have to degrading it "that cannot pronounce foreign languages".

Secondly, when I discussed the difference between Uyghurs and Turks, you labled me "internet policy" and what "communist party tought" me. Those historic facts were existed on historic books back to Tang Dynasty and is not published by Commnist Party.

What I feel that Uyghur is a great people who has a wonderful culture and great historic archevement. Uyghurs should just be proud about themselves and preserve their cultural heritage. Too pitty, someone just cannot see this true, and needs to put a "Huns" or "Turks" lable to reslove a inferior complex. This is a insult to Uyghurs and its ancestors.

Oh, since you are so much into DNA test, please go test DNA of Yughur in Gansu and Uyghur in Hunan. You may get a better picture.

Sha,
your history is full of powerty, hunger, backstabbing , not too much you can proud of. Before manchu invasion, we had a splended history, you brough us all the misery with you.
it is you feel inferior , not the Uyghur.
You are sick!. finally exposed your true nature. You want to deny Uyghur indentity and history. You want to change our identity, but doomed to fail. if you do not like who we are, get a life, get lost from our homeland. because you and your immigrant father did not born in East Turkistan. Your history is in china not in my homeland.
Chinese invasion brought us most difficult times in our history, but we, the Uyghurs, will win by reestublishing our democratic nation.

BTW, I asked you so many "why"s, you almost did not answer all of them. There is no merit of continue the discussion.

Great. A place is full of immigrants. Whoever immigrated before you didn't count, and whoever immigranted after you didn't count. Damn. Looks like in USA now about immigration. LOL.

From pictures at your blog, I guess Uyghurs are more like those minorities in USA. Since you are teacher, are they good at school? Any IQ test about these people?

IQ test is not necessary for the Uighurs. We have a good exmaples here on this blog, 'an uighur'. I think we can clearly see how reasoning and rationality is alien to him. By the way, does anyone notice that these people don't like facts when they make their argument and accusations? It's a shame that there are so many low-life dim-witted in xinjiang, who are even more pathetic they are poisoned by a backward, dark and violent regigion, i mean, "the religion of peace". And don't let me start on their repulsive body ordor. In chinese we call that "huchou", the smell of a fox. However I think that's an insult to the fox, because a fox surely smells much better than these low-life uighurs.

Huaxia,

I disagree to label anybody or any group of people. It is OK to know that some are brainwashed so even don't know what is their history.

For example, I used State of Gaochang which was a Han State in Tan Dynasty but was invaded and annexed by Tang Dynasty to point out the national interest and security is the reason for military action, not ethnicity. The guy just doesn't know this history. Later this same city was under Tubo (Tibet)'s rule, but at 866 AC, some tribes of Uyghur defeated Tubo, and built its own Uyghur Gaochang State. That guy probably though that I was mistaken this Uyghur State as Han State. LOL.

Secondaly, Uyghurs did assimilate many of other groups including some Turkic tribes, and even a great numbers of Mongols and Hans living in the area converted to Muslim and became a part of today's Uyghur (after 1368 AC when Yuan Dyansty fall down).

Look back in history--Uyghurs and Hans probably have very good friendship and relationship and you can hardly find a single war between them. Heck, even when Qing Army crashed in, Uyghurs who rebeled were fought with Hans' anti-Manchu forces. So I am totally against any kind of disrepect words toward Uyghurs, and I will support any legimate Uyghur demands such as employment, culture preservation, education, energy wealth distributions, etc. But I would tell my Uyghur friends, militaric independant movement is NOT a good idea for anyone involved.

they won't be happy until they are hunted down like animals, put in remote reserves and allowed to open casinos

bing,

I think you guys need to change your attitude regard other people. I am in USA and I am very sad to see what Native Americans' life and its number is only about 2.5M now (include Eskimos in Alaska). So somehow I am glad in China, other ethnic groups are NOT being treated like Native Americans and still have a respected population base. Also as Han, I think that we need to bear the responsibility of past terrible polices--from collective movement to Culture Revolution, and should make good efforts to improve the lifes of all people in West side, no matter what ethinic groups they are.

In the long history, Hans had wars with Huns, Turks, Tibetans, Mongols, Manchus, etc., you name it, but Hans NEVER have war with Uyghurs, so any hatrd toward them are senseless. What I am interest is how to raise the living standards of Uyghurs (and others) to narrow the gaps between both ends of China.

I would not have any bad feeling even against East Turkestan fighters. Of course, I will have no problem to fight against them in the battlefield. But that is due to my alliance to national interest and security of China, not because I hate them.

Peace and development! Empty vessels make the most sound!

East Turkmenistan is exactly that, East Turkmenistan and not dirty, corrupt, broken China.

"I want to my Uyghur brothers to enjoy a peaceful and rich life like other Chinese in East Coast"

Yeah, ultra-low wage servitude, unbreathable air, undrinkable food and chicken coop living conditions for the working class of eastern China.
Sounds great, I think the Uyghur would rather live free or die than succumb to the empty promises of Corrupt Chinese Party.

oH my Gawd!! I can't believe how LONG Sha and An Uygur's argument was!! Also I cant believe how stupid and racist some of these commentators were!! Hey guys, just make up and get along!! The problem WILL continue IF BOTH SIDES DON'T COOPERATE. I'm speaking from a neutral perspective, so please don't turn Michael's blog into an ugly race war. Also please acknowledge that not everyone is going through what you are going through, so try to get them to understand at the same level as you. I hope China's problems can be solved without bloodshed and cut-corner policies.

NOTE: Maybe Sha and An Uygur can meet up and then we see what happens. Peace Out!!!

I was born and raised in Xinjiang. From a personal perspective, I think the Hans are more open-minded and liberal in conducting a dialogue on race than the Uighurs are. Though I do think that big problems contributing to the on-going race tension are more social rather than race issues, such as employment, education, and healthcare. The government is doing less than a stellar job in helping the Uighurs to gain accessibility to social infrastructures to make their lives better. Social and race problems are not mutually exclusive, but that does not mean that they cannot be differentiated, and more the reason why they should be treated as separate issues. Let's not get overly confused and do not let bigotry and personal biases take over.

Hi Michael,
I've just become a reader and you have some interesting thoughts. I don't agree with all the projections but it's certainly an interesting intellectual exercise. Anyway I live in URC so let me know if you'd like to meet up at any point for coffee or something, it would be nice to meet some other interesting foreigners. Cheers.
D.

Uyghurs are Turks indeed. All History authorities says so, DNA analysis says so, Uygur customs, languange, wit and philosophy says so.

This is the first time I ever had such a nonsense claim.

Turks were many and at ancient times they were competing and figting as well.

We, in Turkey, are proud wit ancient and modern Uygurs. We the Turkish like Uygurs are descendants of Turkic origins and this is a fact much more solid than the earth's shape.

i am from turkey.i live in east side of china.after i started living in china i had more chance to know about our origins and our relatives and i was amazed.most of Turkey's people's face types are very similar to uighurs but some uighurs'eyes are little different not all.Most probably it's because of intereaction with chinese.the root of our language is same.beacause of long centruies and far distance,there are differences in words.But when we look at the words further more we understand that they are same except one or two letters.Even our pronuncation(throat) is same.

Any way,my point is the communites in the middle asia such as kazaks,tajiks,khirgizs,uigurs,turkmens,uzbeks,azerbaijans,tatars are all turkic origin people. we are all TURKS,we are all a part of TURKISTAN.We are loyal to and proud of our history.No one can deny we are all turks.Ne mutlu TURK'um diyene.

Secondly,personally i advice our brother uighur turks to benefit the economic growth of china but in the other side uighur turks are lack of many rights which other ethnics have.i wish chinese goverment could increase the life standard,education of uighur turks and uighur turks would not be treated as pickpocketers and not remain as meat sellers in east provinces.it's not shame of uighur turks.

In some perspectives chinese people show some similar habits with Turkey's people.So i love chinese people in general despite we fought against each other in Korean war.

Peace in the world,peace in the country .
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk

ZhongGuoRen does NOT equal to chinese!
TuJue does NOT equal to Turk!

Different languages have different meanings.
Do not let language fool yourself!

I think the problem that make Uyghur people left
behind the development is like many small ethnic
groups in major world powers, their languages lack
the power and drive to be evolved into one that is geared for science and technology which is needed for industrilization.

So they either have to use English or other major
languages as their tool of advancement.

Those Uyghurs in China that stay in agriculture and traditional trades are mostly those who want
to keep their language and traditions intact, but
indoingso, they also put themselves to a big disadvantage in highend job competition.

People's look are shaped and affected by
geographical location in thousands of years.

East and West, or the West Europeans and
the East Asians are at the extremes of
two contrasting and opposing looks or
physiogonomies.

People in the middle of this Eurasia continent
are just like mixed blood of the two opposing
forces, with indians have addtional blood from
Africa.

Since 1949
After the founding of the People's Republic of China, Yanbian, where most ethnic Koreans live, was designated as an autonomous county in 1952, and was upgraded to an autonomous prefecture in 1955. Starting in the 1980s, along with the reform and opening up of China and the improvement in South Korea-China relations, many ethnic Koreans in China went to South Korea as migrant labourers to seek better lives; their population there is estimated at 219,000, forming more than half of all Chinese citizens in Korea.[2]. However, the living standard of those who remained behind has continued to improve; one 2004 survey showed that ethnic Koreans had the second highest quality of life in China, after the Manchu, as measured by an overall score which took into account infant mortality, life expectancy, and literacy rates.[3] From around 1990, the ethnic Korean population of Yanbian began shrinking. Koreans schools are being closed for the lack of students, and even where schools exist parents are increasingly unwilling to send their children there. The share of the ethnic Korean population in Yanbian dropped to 36.3 percent in 2000 (from 60.2 percent in 1953). This process is a result of social changes in the ethnic Chinese community. The success of the economic reforms in China brought fast growth. In the past, most ethnic Koreans aspired at becoming a good farmer. Now, success is increasingly associated with a college degree and/or migration to a large city, perhaps even to Seoul. However, college education is in Mandarin, and entrance exams are in Mandarin, too. The Korean parents know that Chinese language schools give their children better chances to go to college. The result is a dramatic decline in enrollment in the Koreans schools. In a middle school in Longjing where in the 1970s there were 400 students, now there are merely 39 students.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_China

See this paragraph in particular !

one 2004 survey showed that ethnic Koreans had the second highest quality of life in China, after the Manchu, as measured by an overall score which took into account infant mortality, life expectancy, and literacy rates.

What do you think about this ? That among 56 minorities in China, Han Chinese is in special favor of the Koreans that they took special measures to ensure Koreans have a better life than their own ?

The secret lies in the Koreans are willing to learn from the cultures that are ahead of them,
and working hard to catch up.

Although English is not the official language,
Han Chinese force their children to learn English
even from kindergarten.