Well, you may have indeed just saved my Tibet trip next summer, or at least my wallet. I gotta say, though, this solution seems so familiar. How many things in China are made easier when you can have a Chinese friend do it for you?

I hear they are scrapping the permit altogether in 2008

Great post Michael. And I agree with Chris, life is much easier with an insider here in China. Whether they'll be called a traitor by their compatriots is another story.

i know you're only talking about train travel to lhasa here but am i right in assuming air travel will continue to require the foreign traveler to get the Tibet Travel Bureau Permit?

I'll send you some of that money as soon as I save it, which in all likelihood I would only be saving if I visit you and then decide to go to Tibet.

Well, I can't say for sure about air tickets. The obvious problem is that air tickets are usually tied directly to your personal information (i.e. name) whereas train tickets are anonymous. So I can't imagine the air ticket office selling a ticket for "John Smith" to your friend Wang Xiaofei without figuring out that their ultimately selling to a foreigner. If anyone does figure out permitless air travel to Tibet, please let me know.

thanks mike. that's what i assumed...please write up about permitless air travel if you do hear from someone. cheers!

Dear.
Madam/Mr.

Here, i have a questions for that how much fees of westerner (self)travelling to Lasa??

yours
sincerly
Lubum

Dear.
Madam/Mr.

Here, i have a questions for that how much fees of westerner permit travelling to Lasa??

yours
sincerly
Lubum

You can check airfares for yourself on eLong.com, which is basically a Chinese version of Expedia, etc... the prices are actually damn cheap. As for the price of a train ticket to Lhasa [拉萨] excluding any TTB permit you might or might not buy, here's an idea: Beijing [北京] (Y789 hard sleeper middle bunk; Y389 seat only), Xian [西安] (Y632 hard sleeper middle bunk; Y296 seat only), Lanzhou [兰州] (Y537 hard sleeper middle bunk; Y242 seat only), Golmud [格尔木] (Y368 hard sleeper middle bunk; Y143 seat only).

If you're just inquiring about the cost of a Tibet Tourism Burea travel permit, it'll run you anywhere from Y200 to upwards of Y1,000 at the moment, depending on who you buy from. The average price seems to be either Y600 or Y800. I'm not sure if that Y200 price is real or not, but I've heard a few times that it may be possible in Chengdu.

Hi,

Where did you find your driver Sonam?

Sonam was provided by the Snowland FIT Travel Service outfit, about 10 meters up the block from the Snowland Hotel on the street leading to Barkhor Square. (They seemed to have the cheapest prices there, at least when I was in Lhasa.)

Response to a request for more information about the "official line" that everyone traveling to Tibet needs a permit and a pre-booked tour:

Your friend is giving you the standard line that CITS, etc. gives to everyone. They insist that getting a permit and booking a tour is the only way, but this is obviously bullshit. The issue with not getting the permit is this: will someone be checking for permits? My own experience and the experience of most people is "no". I have heard rumors of a permit check when boarding the train, but only a rumor. In fact, I was on a train from Beijing to Lhasa (although I was getting off in Xi'an) just a few weeks ago and they didn't seem to be checking for anything. When I actually went to Tibet last September, I boarded my train at 4am in Golmud, Qinghai and had no problems.

I suppose there is a very small chance that they might not let you on the train, and an equally small chance that you'll be required to pay a fine in Lhasa for not having a permit. Both of these, I feel, are very remote possibilities. In any case, I think the fine in Lhasa is only about 300RMB, much cheaper than what most people pay for a permit.

Booking a tour, certainly if you have two or three people already, can be done at about a thousand travel services all over the city. The one I used for my trip to Everest Base Camp and back was Tibet FIT Travel located about 10 meters north of the Snowland Hotel at 4 Danjielin Lu (0891/634-9239 or 655--2370). Give 'em a call. I found the English-speaking boss there to be straightforward and easy to deal with, and the price was the lowest around. Our driver was a great guy by the name of Sonam (photo at china.notspecial.org/gallery/album32/DSCN6379).

Here's a tip that may serve you well (weather permitting):

"Coming from Lhasa, you should stop at the Kangba-la Pass overlooking Yamdrok Tso Lake on your way to Gyantse. Unfortunately, the scenic route between the lake and Gyantse is closed until 2008 while road improvements are made. However, don’t let your driver take the longer but faster route through Shigatse to reach Gyantse. Insist on being taken via Ringbung on the dirt road over the Yong-la Pass, where the views are absolutely stunning. Few tourists take this route, and the locals will be genuinely surprised to see you." -me, Fodor's China, 5th Edition (2007)

That's an exclusive pre-release tip by the way. Har har. Let me know what you decide to do.

Sincerely,
Michael

I'm not sure about this post. During my time in Tibet, people actually did check for my permit twice, once on a bus and once at a checkpoint near Shigatse.

I think it's just luck and how devoted the troop on guard is at the moment. The Lonely Planet writers went around almost all of the TAR without permits.

The situation is always changing. Jon, are you sure they checked your Tibet Travel Permit near Shigatse, or just your travel pass for areas outside of Lhasa? Please note that obtaining the latter permit does not (or at least didng't when I was there) require the former.

Also, everyone should check out this article. It appears that as of May 2007, restrictions are tightening.

Hi, I still no have clear the situation with the
TTB/TTP I will go to Tibet in 15 days,and I don't want to take a tour, I've e-mail many travel agency to get the flight tickets and Tibet permits but whithout luck ,they don't sell anything if you don't take a tour!!
Help me Michael!!
Thanks

You should keep trying! I know that it's difficult, but it can be done. The other thing that many people do is to simply not participate in the tour once you're in Tibet. No one will force you to do anything once you've arrived in Lhasa. Good luck!

You want to know how to get into Tibet the fun way?

I made it to Lhasa without a travel permit. I like to think that the money that I did pay did at least leave me with a great story!

Check it out here.

Once I was in Tibet I was never asked for the permit, even at checkpoints. I did make the mistake of buying a travel permit in Shigatse, which was a waste of paper and put money in the pocket of corrupt local officials.

I took the train from Golmud to Lhasa without a permit. A chinese friend bought the tickets for me and nobody ever checked the permit, not on the train, the platform or anywhere in Tibet.

UPDATED: 14:57, June 21, 2007
Visiting Tibet could become easier

TheTibet Autonomous Region (TAR) could become easier for foreigners because the local government is considering doing away with the laissez-passer system, a senior Tibet official said yesterday.

"The system may not be stamped out this year, but we are actively mulling its removal and will definitely do away with the practice at a proper time to make the entry of overseas visitors into Tibet more convenient," TAR Chairman Qiangba Puncog said at a press conference in Beijing.

Another project that would attract more overseas visitors is a highway on Mount Qomolangma, known in the West as Mount Everest, Qiangba said. The road to the world's highest peak will be completed before August 2008, in time for the Beijing Olympic Games. The project will turn a 110-km rough road linking Tingri County of Xigaze Prefecture at the foot of the Qomolangma Base Camp into a blacktop highway fenced by undulating guardrails.

Some tourists who visited the Base Camp later complained about the poor and unsafe condition of the road, prompting the TAR authorities to "rebuild" it, Qiangba said. The highway will become the major route for tourists and mountaineers.

Listing the infrastructure projects in the region, Qiangba said environmental protection has always got priority whenever a big scheme has been planned to protect the region's fragile and complicated ecological system.

For instance, vast tracks of land along the landmark Qinghai-Tibet Railway have been effectively protected since it opened in July last year. Measures have been taken to preserve the ecology along the 1,956-km tracks, the first ever to link Tibet with the rest of the country.

A recent field investigation along the route found no evidence of damage to the environment, he said. The landscape and lakes have been well preserved and wildlife migration patterns have not changed.

The central government will invest 77.8 billion yuan ($10.23 billion) on 180 projects and in implementing a range of preferential policies. Qiangba welcomed the central government's help and dismissed allegations that the Tibetan people would lose their culture to the Han way of life.

Of the 2.8 million people in Tibet, 92 percent are of Tibetan ethnic group, 5 percent are Hans and the rest are from other ethnic groups, Qiangba said.

"Their custom and traditional festivals remain unchanged even after millions of tourists have been there the region following the central government's massive investment in the region," said the official.

The TAR is also considering allocating hundreds of millions of yuan for maintenance and renovation of world heritage sites and major cultural relics in the region in the next five years, the official said.

Source: China Daily

i am very confused about if i should get a ttp or not! i would like to take the tibet train from beijing to lhasa in about 3 weeks.
do you think the capital is as lazy with checking permits as for example golmud when getting on the train. anyone having experiences with that since the event of may, 2007 (protests), please let me know!

By the way, is it possible to stop somewhere in along the way for a few days? Read that you can only get on??!!

How long in advance do I have do buy the ticket? Is it very busy in July?

I want to take the train from Xian to Lhasa.
How do I buy tickets before I get there?

@veronika: Yes, the trains are very busy in July and August, so buy your tickets far in advance. If you don't have the advantage of living in China, then you'll have to go through an agency. You can stop along the way, but I don't know if you'll be able to get back on. I think some people like to stop in Nagqu (Tibet) to see the scenery and visit Lake Namtso. You'll probably have to take a bus down to Lhasa from there, though.

@Balu: I don't know if you can buy tickets before you get to Xi'an unless you go through a travel agent (or have a Chinese friend who lives in Xi'an buy the tix for you).

Thanks Veronika.

I don't want to be stuck in Xian for a few days sorting out the tickets.

Can someone recommend a good travel agent (e-mail address preferred) for booking a train ticket ahead of time. I sent e-mail to one and they said they could not do it because of heavy booking.

How about airline tickets? I e-mailed dream-travels and they said they stopped doing Xian to Lhasa "self-tours"

I am working on booking a train ticket before I get there. Working with one of the tour operators, I got the following e-mail, saying why I had to book a full tour. Is this true or just a scam? Sounds like a scam to me...

**In April, there were 5 foreign travelers , when they were travelling in Tibet,
they did something which had bad effect to our country-China. As you know, Tibet
is a sensitive place, also is a famous place for travel. Because of that matter,
now our Tourism Bureau forbids foreign travelers who want to travel in Tibet on
their own. It means that all foreign travellers should travel in Tibet with a
tour arrangment that made by a travel agent, (including the tour guide
,sightseeing, hotel etc.), but,could not travel in Tibet on their own. We know
this is a bad news for some travelers who want to travel on their own mind, but
we have to follow the prescription of the Tourism Bureau.Hope your understanding
.

@Balu: You can read about the incident here. Some foreigners unfurled a banner at Everest Base Camp about independence and the Olympics. As for the actual effect on travelers, I can't be sure until someone who's been there recently fills me in.

Can someone who's been to Tibet this summer please give an update on the situation?

Wow! I didn't know that.

An update by someone who went there recently would be greatly appreciated!

Curiously, another tour operator didn't mention anything about it and was wanting me to book a self tour from Chengdu...

Yes, foreigners who enter Tibet need to apply for permit. There will be a checking in some places, like Potala Palace, otherwise you are not allowed to enter it. They will ask for your passport and see whether you have a permit. Chinese people need to show their ID cards.

Things have been changed since the idiot protest made by some silly Americans, self wandering in Tibet is not easy any more. TTB shall not be sold to individual tourists, only group or with guided-tour, so the cost is also steepen skyrocket T_T, I am the one who facing this problem as well, cuz I'll go there next month....so sad

I also took the train from Golmud to Lhasa, a chinese friend bought the tickets, no problem, no checks. Things started to get difficult once we were in Tibet. I was there right at the time when does americans were protesting at Mount Everest. After that all restrictions went up, I needed my own guide to travel through Tibet, this just means you have to pay for one to sit in your Landcruiser. I was traveling with my Chinese wife and we found a very helpful travel agent who was willing to make a document stating that she was the guide, everything went well from there. However, regulations can change overnight, but getting there by train, was a breeze. I have not heard about people being checked on trains and what the consequence would be if you don't have a permit. But please, If you wanna go to Tibet to protest, please stay at home. You make it very difficult for others to enjoy Tibet freely and you do more harm than good to the locals. The foreign protesters are just kicked out of the country, but the Tibetans they associate with can get into a lot more trouble.

Writing from shigatse now without permit and looking for news. LOts of rumours: 2 days ago a grouyp to EBC was sent back, today apparently its ok. THe bridge is brokenn though so it depends on waterlevels and whether your jeep can cope etc.
Maybe we'll risk it going to talk to FIT after this.

@leo: My wife is also chinese, can you tell me who registered your wife as a guide.

The protesters changed nothing... Travel to Tibet is exactly the same as it was before they unfurled their banner at EBC.

Travel gets shut down in Tibet regularly and temporary for lots of reasons. I was in Tibet for the last month (July/Aug '07) and twice tourist travel got shut down for a few days. Both times for major bus accidents (one coming down from Nam-tso), but it happens for all sorts of reasons.

Most of the agents I talked to (Including FIT in Lhasa) didn't care if I had a permit or not. I wouldn't broadcast it, and I would go tell PSB, but you should be fine talking to them (agents) about your options.

My information is a little old, but I wanted to chime in. February 2007 I traveled to Tibet from Chengdu and I was asked for my travel permit on the train in Chengdu. A fellow traveler from Japan, who spoke very good Mandarin was also asked for the permit.

But once I was in Lhasa, no one asked for it. Nada. Great time to visit, btw. Cold, sunny and few people!

I took the train to Lhasa from Xining last autumn. I can confirm that nobody ever asked for the travel permit.

Just like to share my tibet experience around 31 Dec 2007. Yes you need the travel permit and also a tour agency booked in advanced. You can shop around in any cities in China for a tour agent. But best is to approach those with a shop front. Foreigners are not allowed to travel on their own. However, once you are in Lhasa you are more or less free to do what you want. Enjoy your holidays.

Thanks to webmaster. Nice blog. I was traveling with my Chinese wife and we found a very helpful travel agent who was willing to make a document stating that she was the guide, everything went well from there. | buy cheap tramadol